Administrators · Legacy archive
Admin Chatter
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Re: Admin Chatter
#321Contacted him per pm. Just his weird sense of humour. -
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#322Well, you asked for some reaction, and recieved it. Now, _our_ curses thrown in your direction are never voiced so simply. :twisted: -
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#323Talked some to him and he was a nice kid with weird humour. You have company manfred :p -
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#324Someone should have a chat with Cheka. Someone he'll listen to, like Strolen or Scrasamax. He's out of control with his voting, hoh's, and golden votes. (6-7 goldens in the last month i think...basically anything he reads by anyone he likes goes HOH.)
I used to find it amusing, but this is getting beyond ridiculous. Oh and Cheka doesnt discriminate lately either :P Its 5's for EVERYONE!!! Unless he really dislikes a sub, in which case a 4. OR, if a newbie comes out with an awful submission, Cheka cant wait to give it a "1", as soon as he sees it criticized by others.
And of course there is his latest reply to my (less than) innnocent question see [30 Knights] :what: -
Re: Admin Chatter
#325I don't think you will get the other admins to listen to reason on this. Basically it goes like this: He is harmless, he is honest (well, hardly in his voting, but his reply was honest enough), and so on and so forth.
I pride myself in being able to discern peoples' motives in most cases, though my tendency to act without 100% proof and sanction is debatable. It was nice to read, black on white, that I have been correct though.
But, to get to the point: What could we possibly do about this? I had his confidence long ago and I tried to talk him into honest voting. It ended up with him voting honestly on my subs (he gave them the usual 5/5 HoH blahblah before that). I talked to him again and he quit voting on my subs (all the quest finalists had a Cheka vote in the back btw =P ).
So let us face it: He is here to stay and his voting practices won't change anytime soon.
Possible actions:
Threat of suspension - Harsh and un-Citadel like
Sweet talking - Tried by me. Will result in honest voting on the subs of the guy who talks to him. A rather dubious result.
Experience reduction on prolonged constant 5's or 1's (Voting anomalies) - Might work. He loves his XP. -
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#326you've hit it on the head with that last bit. XP, HoH votes, Golden *shudder* votes. Hit him where it hurts (figuratively speaking). For example, he somehow ended up with -2 HoH votes for today. I think he should start every fine morning at -2 HoH's :wink: for the day. Maybe stuff like that.
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#327Well, I have worked with lads like Cheka before (professionally) and I know for a fact that math and mathematical solutions do reach them in ways that subtle hints cannot.
You other admin guys: I know this. I have spent years of my life working with guys like this and I know Cheka is in my "target audience".
Math is the way.
(Unfortunately we have debated this just a while ago, and were voted south. Methinks the other guys rather like their 5/5's and HoHs, regardless of the source or authenticity :p) -
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#328If he doesnt HoH and 5 my next submission, I will be mightily saddened. My feelings will be hurt. :(
For I will know that I created crap.
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Agreed, the second part of his comment was honest. "I go with flow". But first he says in his comment, "ok 5/5 then". Now that is just wrong! :o
I leave you with these words of a prophet, not sure which one...
Be not thee swayed by false flatterers! But flee from them as you would from locusts. For they deceive you. The sycophants have their own ring in HELL!!
-St. Muro of Metz -
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#329It really kind of irritates me. It makes me want to yell at him (digitally :D). I mean, it's ridiculous. Everything is either perfect or it's a 1 and without redeeming factors with him.
Blah.
Whatever.
I am content to let the *real* admins figure it out.
SO SAYETH CP, THE ANTI-ADMINISTRATOR! -
Re: Admin Chatter
#330Would you yell at the kids with similar problems in your class? C'mon CP, you are trained to handle guys like that. It is part of your teacher education. -
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#331I'll put it short, since I am getting bored by all the voting-practices-talk. Somebody talk to him, decently though. As for lowering XP for voting, I have no problem with that.
0.02$ of mine. -
Re: Admin Chatter
#332One devil advocates thought as I have only a couple minutes before I go to work.
He submits.
He comments.
He is very active.
He does everything we wish 100s of more people would do.
He has earned every right that he uses.
What he does that annoys everybody is that he *likes* everything he reads and uses the rights that *we granted him*.
Yes, I suppose it is annoying that he 5's everything. Suppose it is even a little annoying that he HoHs every other thing. Does he do it because he really likes it or to get the useless XP?
Should we care what the motivations are?
Should we be glad he isn't putting a 1 on every submission instead?
At least he is pretty consistent in his voting so, while some ratings might be inflated a bit, they all are then.
Does that *really* hurt anything?
Does it effect the Citadel enough to single him out and mess with privilidges that anybody else can earn and then take them from him just because he is using them how he sees fit?
I don't know the answers to all these questions. I may not even agree with some of the statements, but when you look at it. Do we even have a case against him?
Just food for thought. Will chime in again later tonight. -
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#333As a complete aside, I'll be gone for a few days. A little optical surgery with laser should make my eyes better. Call it a bionic upgrade if you want. :)
I have a few painful days before me... as well some time without Internet. Should I survive this period, :D I'll be back. -
Re: Admin Chatter
#334
I'll put it short, since I am getting bored by all the voting-practices-talk. Somebody talk to him, decently though.
I talked to him. I talked really nice. I was sweet as sugar glaced cherry pie. It did not work. It will never work.
Re Strolen:
Voting 5 and HoH everything + Goldening every fourth thing annoys me.
It might be because I am a small person.
I am getting annoyed with people not agreeing to what I say. You need to do as I tell you! You need to be assimilated!
Ok. I am dropping this case until the next annoyed person pops up. Then I will throw myself at this again. And again. And again. -
Re: Admin Chatter
#335Aug. 24th:
Cheka rises...stretches, and wipes the sleep from his eyes.
"Lessee here...3 subs...5, 5, and 5...oh and an HoH, oh and a Golden (peculiarly, the golden vote was NOT accompanied by an HoH [The troubles of King Stymian] :lol:)
okay I'll stop now.
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#336I might as well state my thoughts. While Strolen was playing devil's advocate... that is close to my own opinion. It doesn't matter to me how he votes. If he tends to vote high for no reason, then I simply ignore his vote, likewise his HoH's, although he does occasionally attract attention to subs that need it. In short, I don't care. I will support whatever is decided, though. -
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#337I don't want to take any action with the complaints we currently have. Frankly, and it might be because I am not as active as I really should be, it doesn't bother me as much that he votes 5s on everything. He can golden all he wants, that will be taken care of too with a simple script that cleans out the golden nominations after a bit. Maybe he finds a couple that the rest of us will vote on and we get a few more goldens up there. No big deal. He gains a few XP for doing it and gives the author some too...no big deal. He still has to submit to go through the levels and he is still doing that too. Only thing is some inflated rankings and people getting some extra XP. Other peoples votes generally even it out to about something it should be anyway. I can tell you, any rating system anywhere (and others have said the same thing) are going to be inflated. From job ratings to this forum. What little harm he is doing is not worth annoying him and possibly losing him over it IMHO. Just let him be, let him vote away and HoH to his hearts content. He is acting within the confines of the system just like anybody is so there is no reason to really penalize him for it. The last voter we didn't like (I am sure you remember the one that voted everything lower) we drove right out of here. It is not worth it to me (anymore) to lose somebody that is creative and active over this. Yes, I guess the devil took me over.
I did, however, update it so that the golden and hoh counting really works. So if you golden or HoH something then you lose your one HoH vote and you can't do another one that day. So, only one golden or HoH each day. -
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#338Your inescapably gentle wisdom hath quieted the raging beast inside.
:dracoliche: = :babyd: -
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#339i must agree with Strolen, for like Confucius, wise he is. -
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#340I don't agree, but I yield to the power of milord! :shock: :) -
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#341Today at 16:56:59 Ancient Gamer - Seeyas Mourngrymn. Thanks for the nice, albeit short chat
Today at 17:11:19 hustla - darklord is andrew kane
Today at 17:12:31 hustla - strolen should go fuucckk himself
Today at 17:31:09 Mourngrymn - NP AG, nice hustla... how about we refrain from that in chat please. Thank you.
Hustla is the same as Dark-Lords friend and all those. He has been banned on occasion before, but has found a hole to worm his way through.
Ban him Strolen?
Edit: He IS already banned... Oh my
Profile of Hustla: http://www.strolen.com/guild/index.php?action=profile;u=2284
Name: hustla
Posts: 0 (0.000 per day)
Position:
IP: 72.88.145.185
Hostname: pool-72-88-145-185.nwrknj.east.verizon.net
Date Registered: 24 May 2006, 18:42:08
Last Active: 20 June 2006, 17:58:55 -
Re: Admin Chatter
#342Ah Dark-Lord... It almost makes me misty eyed for "He who shall not be named". At least he was interesting.
We do have voting issues, but that is what occurs when you get a number of people. It is like the person who votes party line mindlessly. Or those that have other adjendas. Everyone has their own criterias and nobody is really ever going to agree. Thus we have voting issues, not because we have issues, but because people have issues.
And yes, his polar voting and HoHing anything that isn't moving is annoying... but hey, he is here and trying. How about those other lurkers?
You know what we need. We need here is more "3" members. Our problem is that we have experts (5s), a few near experts (4s), and some idiots (2-1s). Our standards are edging towards the very high. This has advantages for the quality of posts. It has the disadvantage of creating an artificial entry barrier, that it is too hard for most new people to join in. How to get around this, I am not sure. I am working on it.
About the HoH issues:
Can we change this to "Spotlighted submissions"? This way the mechanic we have in place is appropriately used... something that someone wants to bring to others attention. Usually because it is good, but sometimes just because it is interesting. The change of name eliminates our expectations that Hall of Honor brings.
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#343I agree. We need more "3" members.
But, to put it this way: Do we need "3" members, or do we need to put out more "3" submissions in general?
I can put out 3 submissions. It is easy: Just come up with an idea, jot it down and post it. It will be some flavour of gem in the rough.
Seriously, I mean it.
Scrasamax, CaptainPenguin, Murometz, manfred, others... Are you with me? Shall we produce "easy reading material" for the site?
Not exclusively of course, but to lower the standards a bit. Make them less daunting.
(Just an idea off the top of my head) -
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#344I am simply not sure what my opinion is on this matter. Just being honest.
But if short and sweet ideas, minus endless detail and world-specific minutae is the order of the day, so be it. However, I can only write one way. Which is to say I write the way I write. For better or worse.
for an interesting and timely opinion, see the recently bumped . ephe offers a good take on the subject.
What is the answer? Is that sub a "3"? An Idea Seed? what?
Lastly, I have recently reached a cathartic state of enlightenment when it comes to this topic. People will vote, however they want to vote. People will write, however they want to write. Its all nebulous.
imho. -
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#345AG seemed to miss the point of the post. We have a cadre of highly skilled writers in which new people have a hard time breaking into. When someone does put up a "3" post, it gets torn apart based upon the scale we have set for our superior members, even if it they are new. It is not very encouraging to new people to post... so we get a trickle of new active members instead of a better flow of them.
The advantage of having more middle range members is that we would have a more balanced voting and submission pool. However since others are getting upset, I am not going to linger on the point.
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#346It almost makes me misty eyed for "He who shall not be named".
Yeah, at least he had some talent for writing and some creativity. He had interesting ideas, to an extent.
I want Ra to come back!
As for "easy reading": Well, I'm not sure how I *would* make a three. I'm pretty sure that my "Ssao E'hzeir" is a 3 level post, but got voted a 4... -
Re: Admin Chatter
#347Quick thought: To eliminate the vote trend of "if a sub has a high vote, GIVE the sub a high vote", what if we made ALL votes and comments on that vote - individual votes AND the total vote - invisible to all for 3 days? That way it will be more like everyone has made the first vote and so it would give a FAR more honest vote.
The reason for the comments bieng invisible is so people can't read posts that say "Wow BRILLIANT! 5/5 HOH!" and vote accordingly. Then, when everyone gets to see each others comments and votes when it's revealed, we might see a much more unbiased group of comments and votes.
And so people understand why their submissions have no votes/comments on them, we can just have a countdown meter on the bottom of their sub explaining
" x hours until Votes and Comments are revealed."
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This idea may not get rid of the problem that we have "experts (5s), a few near experts (4s), and some idiots (2-1s).", but it perhaps with this in place the votes will pan out a bit anyway...?
And while i'm on my spiel, I must say that I disagree with the vote idea that: 1-2 is horrible, 3 needs a lot of work, 4 alright, but needs work, 4.5 A good submission, 5 a VERY good submission.
My view of how it should be, is that 1 is "Delete Me Now" 2 is "Needs work" 2.5-3 is an average post, 3-3.5 is beginning to shine, 4-4.5 is Extremely good, and 5 is a PERFECT submission (of which there are as good as none :p). A 5 + HoH is even better - a perfect submission, a refreshing idea, and well presented/paragraphed/spellchecked. A Golden submission should be a revolutionary idea - redifining.
I'll start voting like that one day, though i'm sure people will hate it when I start giving out 3 and 3.5's :P
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#348I just base my votes on the descriptions associated with the vote ratings on the menu. :P -
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#349That's what I do, too.
But seriously, guys, who among us would love to see Ra come back? I miss his bizarre codes and games and all his weird s**t like that.
Of course, some of us are newer than others and don't remember him. -
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#350Ha! My head hurt anytime I tried to decipher any of his ramblings :p My mind just isn't cut out for that kind of thing anymore -
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#3511. I love Shadoweagle's 3-day countdown
2. I don't remember Ra
3. I already vote like Shadoweagle wants to vote. It is a nice way to make people grumpy. -
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#352Secret votes bring nothing but headache. Not only the logistics of the event (which leads to problems), but the ability for someone to claim fraud.
There is always too many pieces of social politicing involved in this. Herd voting, friend and recipical voting. If we take the comments out, then there will be no way to track some of this... in addition you don't think people talk in the chat? or by email?
If we are having problems with all this, then we should not allow comments on ANY submission (QUEST OR NOT) for three days, that way everyone will vote for it blindly.
No matter what happens for the quest, these are just submissions. After two weeks (or so) they are a permanent part of our record. Lets have them fit in with the rest of our Citadel.
AG: re E3: When people vote like that for you, you tend to complain. That they don't understand it, or the quality applied.. etc. Just pointing it out. -
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#353To give the horse its finishing blow: :)
1. Golden subs will be revised soon
2. HoHs will be turned into Spotlights (or whatever) and should become more civilized, if we assume it correctly
With these two things in mind, I think most of the problem evaporates. On to more interesting topics!
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More "3" members... may be useful. No need to make existing members posting stuff they would themselves consider 'below standards'. Post what you feel is right, that's it.
This is really a question on attracting new members here, and for us to get more ideas in the end. Since we are the world's elite ;) how can we get around not turning elitist sooner or later? Guess we have to remind ourselves to be polite and helpful over and over. *shrugs*
If you come up with something in this direction, MH, I want to hear it.
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Hiding votes for three days... not sure about it. If, say, the total vote would be hidden for three days, I'd have no problem with it - may even provoke more voting on what seems to be an unvoted submission. Hiding user comments... no. That would change totally how the Citadel works. We want honest feedback as soon as possible - and that is words; votes are just an additional aspect to it. -
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#354If we are having problems with all this, then we should not allow comments on ANY submission (QUEST OR NOT) for three days, that way everyone will vote for it blindly.
First and foremost: My post was never intended to mean only the Quests: I MEANT every submission. I'm pretty sure I never even said the word 'quest' in my post :). And I meant that people still submit their comments: it just isn't VISIBLE to anyone else for 3 days.
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What I actually meant wasn't secret votes - I meant it's exactly the same format and layout, except that the comments/votes are shown three days later than usual. It doesn't really make it more 'secret' than how it currently is. Hell, sometimes I don't make it to the site for three days!
in addition you don't think people talk in the chat? or by email?
And yes, I am aware that people talk in chat and email. However, personally, I log into the site, i click on a sub and read it. Once i've read it I vote/comment on it. Just because my vote/comment will be invisible for three days doesn't mean I'll stop everything and email my friends to ask how I should vote, and i'm sure nearly everyone else would feel the same way. Besides, the extra effort it would take to contact someone and converse to them about the sub would dissuade most people from doing it, when they can just click a vote and add a few words of praise.
Herd voting, friend and recipical voting. If we take the comments out, then there will be no way to track some of this
As for tracking voting and such... How would it make it any more difficult than how it currently is? All comments and votes will still be shown, dated and tagged with names, the single difference is that you'll see it three days later than normal. And if that really DOES make that much difference, let the admins see the posts earlier.
In conclusion: I don't care if we DISABLE this 3-day thing for quests. Reading back, i'm pretty sure the whole of the recent talk about voting in this thread wasn't about quests anyway. I was thinking about the main site in general. I just thought it would be a fair suggestion to throw out there and at least help LIMIT the voting trends - ya know; since i'm a semi-admin, try and actually do something productive for the site (heaven forbid :p)
And Manfred:
Hiding votes for three days... not sure about it. If, say, the total vote would be hidden for three days, I'd have no problem with it - may even provoke more voting on what seems to be an unvoted submission. Hiding user comments... no. That would change totally how the Citadel works. We want honest feedback as soon as possible - and that is words; votes are just an additional aspect to it.
I acknowledge your point on feedback. The reason I wanted to hide it however, simply was so people couldn't read the feedback where people have said they've voted '5/5' or whatever, and use that as a trend. Perhaps make feedback viewable by the Original Poster before the 3 days? Otherwise, maybe an easier thought would just to be hiding the total vote as you said. -
Re: Admin Chatter
#355How about some sort of script that will not let someone see what the score is on a sub UNLESS they vote on it first. I don't like hidden votes and comments hidden for three days.
I want instant gratification dammit!
Comments can remain visible since sometimes some pertinent things are listed in the comments section, often additions or clarifications by the author.
Votes could be locked as I said above (maybe? not sure if that is feasible) so that if you don't vote, you can't see what others have voted, except for the author, who cannot vote on his or her own work.
3 Day black-out :down:
Ra :up:
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Re: Admin Chatter
#356AG: re E3: When people vote like that for you, you tend to complain. That they don't understand it, or the quality applied.. etc. Just pointing it out.
I did say it tended to make people grumpy, did I not?
Each and every one of us here, with the notable exceptions of manfred and Strolen, have been grumpy about some vote one time or another. I am no different. My latest grumpiness, the Chaosmark incident, was about something different. Just pointing it out. ;)
I still love the 3-day countdown, but we could make it 7-day. -
Re: Admin Chatter
#357Indeed, up with Ra!
I don't give a rat's hairy ass about this whole voting battle. I think it's fine the way it is. You can't really fight human nature, people will vote how they want to, and besides, the more crazy rules and limits and mechanisms we place on voting, the less appealing putting out the actual vote is. I mean, I think you are all really taking this way to seriously.
I think this whole dog-and-pony-show is distracting from the real purpose of this site, which is creativity and ideas. The more we concentrate on mechanics and "fairness", the more distracted we are from actually creating innovative, creative, interesting posts.
And, frankly, this brouhaha is just sucking the fun right out of participating in Strolen's Citadel. It's like the A-bomb: everybody's good, everybody's having a fun time, then it comes along, and BOOM, everybody's dead.
To quote Archimedes Plutonium: "Calm down, man, this is the Internet, this is not Vietnam, go play some par golf or tennis set." -
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#358What the Captain said. -
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#359Out of time so quick.
Hiding votes and comments: No
Hiding votes: they are as hid as they will be.
Ra: I would love to get him back. His posts and the pms to me are somewhere so go find them and reread them.
HoH: Name won't change. I like it and it perfectly states the reason. Hall of Honour. Whoever voted for them found something of value in them and voted for them to honour them. It works just fine if you simply accept them. See the other post in the quest thread for more on it.
Gotta run. Here is my quick explanation:
Had a Senior Induction Ceremony/Class all last week that ate up much time. I am going on temporary duty (TDY) to New Mexico (Kirtland) on Tuesday for two weeks and have gotten bombarded at work so have little time at home for fun stuff. Not sure how much time I will have but if I have internet I should have plenty of time. Just not this week. Then after that I will have some war game training for a week which will be many long days. (get to shoot guns at people and chuck ground burst grenades and smoke bombs and sneak through the woods and all that crap. Going to be GREAT! Especially since I will be a trainer so get to dress up in turbines and attack caravans and stage sneak attacks and all that jazz. Army usually gets all this fun but we have a special program at Little Rock called Camp Warlord. Going to be a riot!)
That is me, busy for a bit so sorry I am not giving the attention that all this deserves!! -
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#360Psh, Stop apologising! Go, have your fun! The citadel's not going anywhere xP