Therafter Out of Game Discussion — Legacy Forums

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#281

Well gee, haven't you read through the first campaign? Isn't that something that should be expected of you? Hmm?

Short answer, no. We never fought humans before and since Kassy was missing for a whole lot of the first part as well, we didn't interact much. She knows I'm not a soldier and that I'm timid, make of that what you will.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#282

For reference, I do per-round initiative. I'm old school that way :)

Not that it mattered with their init roll. 1. Sigh. Need better dice.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#283

Well gee, haven't you read through the first campaign? Isn't that something that should be expected of you? Hmm?

What's with the attitude? I took over Ayna as a kindness to the Gm after he personally asked me to, and I happen to care enough about the game to at least ask about past events rather than make up my own mind about it.

To be more clear I did read the rp back before I even played Ayna, back before I first asked about rping Elvis, (reading the game is why I had an interest in playing it obviously,) but I could not recall if Ayna knew of your chars credo against killing, so rather than reread all of that a second time I chose to simply ask.

I'll of course defer to the Gm's ruling it's well enough known around town so you and Elvis playing bullet repository in the elevator isn't an unexpected reaction to Ayna, although I am a bit puzzled why you so readily shot the janitor without hesitation, yet have issues with these guys when they're the same people/group? ;)

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#284

Hey if I suspect a discrepancy between what someone demands of others and what they're willing to do themselves, I have no qualms about rubbing that person's nose in it. Obviously I can't know beforehand what you have done or not done, but it didn't seem as if you had and I freely admit to jumping to conclusions at times. In either case, without retention, does it matter? If you read something and then forget about it, then you might as well have not read it, no? It comes out the same in the end, philosophically speaking. Personnally I don't have very good retention for things I wasn't myself involved in either, I've always prefered an equal exchange in most things. But naturally the stakes are different with a pre-existing character, boy did I learn that the hard way.

The fact that we (Carnegie and A-n-y-a) didn't interact much should at least have been fairly clear, I thought. But fair enough, and I did answer in either case, the teasing snide remark I threw in for free. If it doesn't apply, okey-dokey. Mea culpa. :stickpoke:

Nope, you've presumed that they're the same. The janitor looked all zombie-roboty, as you both even assured Carny. There hasn't yet been anything to suggest that these two are the same as him. Besides, why should every rp have nothing but casual murderers as PCs? No, I'm thinking I'll be playing this straight for once.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#285

I am also fine with Carnegie behaving in a less than ideal way, and would prefer we keep our conflict between the characters instead of the players.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#286

Less than ideal way. :P I'll tell you what would be a less than ideal way, me creating a character, saying this is how this character is, and then throw it all out the window at the first sign of trouble/meta/because I feel like it/what have you. I even said prior to the fight if humans show up I won't fight, then human looking enemies show up and everyone's miffed that I'm doing what I said I would? Don't go to a lemon tree and be expecting apples, if this was the real world you wouldn't be expecting everyone to be a murderer. If I had something to incapacitate them with, I may have used that instead, or some other way to affect something, but when push comes to shove, a hunter isn't used to the idea of someone else shooting at 'Them', and the fact that *get this* she's-NOT-a-murderer. Mind blown, I know. :P I'm trying to play a human, not a commando. Roleplaying, not roll-playing. I mean really, is that wrong? I should hope not.

Speaking of inter party conflicts, it would be nice if there was anything but. :P Gee wiz...

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#287

Ease down there girly, no ones said they had any issue with your char having a credo against taking human life, don't look for a fight where there isn't one. :bat:

"Less than ideal" in this case, likely means your decision not to participate in the fight so you're not getting any the xp from the conflict. To most players, missing out on xp would be "less than ideal," but from a rp perspective if that's what you find fun, I've got no issues with it. 8)

Asha knowing you didn't have her back in any fight against people would have been good for my character to know ahead of time however. :wink:

As for inter party conflict, eh, it can be part of a captivating story, much like how Jayne was usually at odds with the rest of the crew in Firely and even came close to being airlocked by Mal, or like the number of fights/disagreements the entire crew in Farscape had with each other.

As long as we don't start exchanging bullets/blades to settle disputes, it's no biggie to me. :thumbup:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#288

I am surprised that my choice of words was also considered suboptimal :) My intent was exactly how silv mentioned it. Not fighting back was suboptimal from a tactical perspective. I am considering providing xp bonuses for the rp aspect.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#289

I am considering providing xp bonuses for the rp aspect.

I am admittedly luke warm to the idea of anyone getting Xp for doing nothing, regardless of their motivation , especially when those risking their lives in the fight are also expending costly resources (bullets, medical supplies if injured, damage to armor and/or equipment etc.) on top of the danger.

Having a suitable in character reason to sit out of a conflict is fine, I just don't feel anyone should receive XP for hiding in a corner waiting for the fight to end. ;)

Whether or not the person/people not participating in the fight gets a share of the loot from the fight or not is also an open question, but one better handled in character.

If I had something to incapacitate them with, I may have used that instead, or some other way to affect something.

So then would your character be okay with us shooting them with bullets while you shoot them with a taser or traq dart? Philosophically speaking, being willing to let us pull the trigger is nearly as bad as pulling the trigger yourself, since you are doing nothing to prevent the murder you are by one frame of mind an accomplice/accessory to the murder, inaction being an action in and of itself and all that. ;)

(Yep, a pacifistic type of view is a complicated moral standpoint, and exploring it in the context of a rpg can be lots of fun, which is why I field the question, not so I can get an answer per se, but so you can figure out the answer for your character.) :moon:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#290

don't look for a fight where there isn't one.

There's a lot of negativity though as I perceive it, so I'm just trying to put my point forward, which I have done, I hope. Just for the record, do I need to react to you calling me girly, will you take it as me consenting otherwise? I can't do it everytime that would get really old, so yeah, refer to me how you wish, just don't take it as word of god, k. ;)

I am surprised that my choice of words was also considered suboptimal :)

Words, what fickle beasts they are. ;) I get misunderstood on a daily basis, if not an hourly, and I do my fair share of misunderstandings as well, no worries.

@Lady Wolf

I certainly shouldn't be getting any xp from the enemies, but not as if it's uncommon for a GM to reward someone for staying in character. Luckily, noone asked you about it. :razz:

And nuuuo, now it's you who's jumping to conclusions. I wouldn't incapacitate someone for you to kill them, but as an alternative to the whole group killing them. Well it's kind of a tricky situation right now isn't it, both parties are shooting at eachother so not much I can do to stop it, unless I killed either them or my own group, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose. If your theory turns out to be correct and they turn out to be robots though, now that would be quite a tangle. I would either have to be sure, or just take for granted that they're all robots, and you just know sooner or later one of them isn't going to be. :P

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#291

Oh and by the way, hasn't it occurred to anyone that you could yell your theories to Carny? Speaking is a free action and all that. Just tell her that they're robots, she's killed one already. Of course if they turn out not to be robots, that would likely break her and wouldn't do much towards building trust... :dunno:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#292

Just for the record, do I need to react to you calling me girly, will you take it as me consenting otherwise? I can't do it every time that would get really old, so yeah, refer to me how you wish, just don't take it as word of god, k. ;)

Lol np, but with the forum name "Gossamer" 99% of people that run into you here are going to assume you are female, (I don't know of any guys who would choose such a feminine and frilly name. ;) ) now if it was a more gender neutral name like RPG lover, Storm Cloud, Jayne/Jamie, Charlie, etc.. then it would be a touch more ambiguous. :P

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#293

....F...frilly? Well I like frills, as long as I don't have to dust them. XD And I'll have you know, in the Belgariad there's a man called Silk, so there. :P Not so straightforward is it.

I picked this name because I had started reading the Drizzt D'oUrden books... Drows and all that.

Jayne is gender neutral? My name may not be 100% original, but RPG lover..? Do you think I'm made of white bread and milk or something? :P

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#294

And I'll have you know, in the Belgariad there's a man called Silk, so there. :P Not so straightforward is it.

In real life it's much less of an issue given you can generally tell by appearance or voice/mannerisms if the person is male or female, online all people have is a screen name/avatar to go by, well that and most people just tell everyone their gender and list it in their profiles and don't try to make it into a dime store mystery novel. ;)

Jayne is gender neutral? My name may not be 100% original, but RPG lover..? Do you think I'm made of white bread and milk or something? :P

Well Firefly helped with that one being gender neutral, and RPG lover was a deliberately bland example, much like those generic names people choose and stick a number on the end of. (usually the year of their birth or year it was created.)

Do you think I'm made of white bread and milk or something?

Vinegar and lemon juice maybe? :P (Which incidentally is a pretty good marinade for pork chops.)

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#295

I'm not trying to make it into anything, I just don't see any reason for anyone I'm not romantically involved in to have any kind of concerns regarding what's between my legs. And I don't really see how anyone else ought to feel entitled to try and conform me just because their worldview can only handle so much. I am who I am, people may read into that all they want, but I'm not obligated to tell them if they're right or not. *shrug*

That last part I have no idea what you're trying to do. But I can't say I appreciate it, joke or no joke. If you're aching for a sunnier me, that's the wrong approach lassy. A little lemony zest though is in-dubitably part of what makes up this acquired taste, buyer beware. :ultimatrout:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#296

"This acquired taste" followed by a giant fish emote, I'll be chuckling about this one till the end of the week at least, thanks for that injection of humor to my evening. :lol:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#297

"With Ayna's lack of healing skills and her feat of "killer" helping the man via a bullet to the brain seems the only real way of assistance she can provide."

While you didn't shoot, I still feel worried enough of that sentiment that for future reference sake, I feel that we need to touch on this briefly.

Picture this, you're on the floor, beside this bleeding person, and you're trying to stem the bloodflow, you yell out for help, and the response you get is that someone behind you shoots the person you're trying to help, who you're basicly sitting on top of, blood splattering in your face. Would this at all make you feel comfortable?

Nevermind the fact that you're already distressed, now someone has just fired basicly at you, and killed the person you were desperately trying to help not die. Would you stay in a group containing such a person? I can tell you right now I would have some serious trouble coming up with an excuse to do so, as the sane response would be to flee as far away as fast as you can.

Furthermore, the proximity of your intended target to your teammate leaves you with the following options;
A) You stand behind some way away and fire, meaning that the slightest movement from Carny, or from yourself, could have resulted in her death or serious injury.
B) You lean forward and basicly discharge the weapon next to one of her ears. And while that may not be covered in the rules, I would definately have played that straight. I haven't had it happen to me personnally, but I would imagine at the very least it would rupture the eardrum.
C) You push her out of the way and then fire. Seeing as you already took aim, I would imagine you hadn't considered this option.

Options B and C, I would have resisted to the best of my ability, but A I probably couldn't have done much about, although I suppose the sound of the gun being cocked could have alerted me to your intentions. Even so though, all outcomes would have been equally terrible and quite literally shocking.

D) Tell her to get out of the way first. Now if this was your intention, okay fine (waste a good rant why don'cha), but you did write that you raised your gun as the first thing. And I wouldn't have gotten out of the way in either case, so would you still have fired then? If so, that leads us back to A-C.

I wouldn't want to tell you how to play your char, but in this potential junction it could have been catastrophic and most likely resulted in the immediate retirement of my character, so I hope you can appreciate why this makes me a tad uneasy. I mean I have a feat that's called never stop shooting, but that would be kind of impractical if I put it into literal use, certainly would make it hard to sneak up on anyone ever, and the ammo would always be running out... Ahrm, trying desperately to contain my natural snark here and not make a whole bit out of this, biting my tongue. :chain:

http://youtu.be/qQxvSsVQkoU?t=5m8s
(5.08)

...But yeah, for future reference, do please try to avoid shooting at me if at all possible. :P

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#298

I assumed Ayna was standing perpendicular to the body, so would have been able to shoot without shooting past you, or was still kneeling down so could just press her pistol to the mans temple? *shrugs*

Besides shooting him would have been a waste of a bullet, a blade would have been both quieter, and cleaner. :wink: It does raise an interesting moral question though, is ending an enemies suffering with a mercy shot/stab an act of evil, or a small kindness to spare them the agony of a slow passing?

Also how much xp did Ayna and me get from the guards? (I'm still trying to catch the rest of the group in levels and want to grab a rank or two of lock picking when I hit lvl 2)

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#299

Hey, hello, hallo and hiyas.

I'm re-reading everything, which may take a while, once I've caught up I will post another message here if y'all want me back on board that is.

If there is anything I (or Anya) need to know, please send it to me in a PM so that I can keep track.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#300

I assumed Ayna was standing perpendicular to the body, so would have been able to shoot without shooting past you, or was still kneeling down so could just press her pistol to the mans temple? *shrugs*

Maybe so, but it doesn't really change anything, there are only two main categories, one in which I perceive what's coming and is able to attempt to prevent it, and the other in which I am not aware, both already covered.
That's a weakness though in pbps and tabletops in general, we can't likely cover all details at all times, like where are we facing, where are we situated in correlation to the others. Take a room with two entrances, if enemies were to find you there, suddenly it becomes very important from which entrance they're entering and where you are standing in the room, stand in the right place and become invisible. So yeah keeping track of where everyone is at any given time is really cumbersome, so assumptions is really all we have. Even should we comb through everyone's posts and play connect the dots, others may have had different perceptions and expectations of where they were in that given moment. Take your sunglasses for instance, I've been assuming that you've been putting them back on at the appropriate times but you haven't actually written that you have everytime, which of course isn't something I expect you to, but at the same time, catching you without the glasses would make for an interesting scene all on its own. In conclusion, assumptions.

It does raise an interesting moral question though, is ending an enemies suffering with a mercy shot/stab an act of evil, or a small kindness to spare them the agony of a slow passing?

May be a rhetorical question but... I would say that my instinct would be to help anyone that's dying, and while I am generally for euthanasia as a concept when there is no other possible outcome, I would likely be unwilling to do anything like that personnally, especially when unbidden. So help to me, means to stop them from dying rather than stopping them from suffering. Neither I nor Carnegie is a medical professional and couldn't really determine when that threshold has been passed in either case, except in certain situations like a shot to the liver. If they were to plead for death, that too would be hard to accept for both of us, but it would of course be a step better than to just up and kill them and take away their choice.

Hey Kaz.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#301

Hey, hello, hallo and hiyas.

I'm re-reading everything, which may take a while, once I've caught up I will post another message here if y'all want me back on board that is.

If there is anything I (or Anya) need to know, please send it to me in a PM so that I can keep track.

Hey, I've been keeping Ayna alive and involved in the current adventure, I'll stop posting with her now so you can take back over, once Val finishes switching the game over to D&D 5thed I'll rejoin with a char of my own, until then I'll keep playing Elvis if no one objects? :moon:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#302

Stem...? I guess it could mean stem cells, but when we call them stim packs, isn't it a little worrying that it's potentially misspelt? Do they all read stem or just that one? Red lights going off for anyone else? Is it too late to change my mind, did I notice it just as it pricked him or?

I hope you don't turn my dog into a robo-slave...Trusting you here val! :P Speaking of which, maybe it was a good thing that none of us used that matrixy hacker skill software thingie we found.

I got...a 6. +6, so 12. Does it need a lot of skill to use one of those things? Would a natural 1 have pricked him in the eye or something? :shock: Sorta like playing that operation game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2F3ZWEEbF4
(Careful if you're wearing headphones).

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#303

Well, those matrixy hacker things might be the only way certain skills could be developed without a tutor.. :)

And no. Your roll was a check for either a 1 or a 20. However, not breaking 10 might have had some consequences.

Waiting on Elvis's roll to move on.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#304

(18:33:43) Minion: Lady_Wolf rolls 1d20 and gets 5.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#305

Is Marcus going to give me that tac light for my Glock or do I need to pick pocket it off him? ;)

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#306

I expect to make the 1st draft of my 5th ed conversion rules available this week. New characters will follow them, and existing characters will be adapted to them. This should be fairly straightforward, as 5th ed has fewer rules than the modded pathfinder we we are currently using. Characters can be considered plastic if there are changes you would like to make that take advantage of the new system - we can discuss them.

At the time of the transition, current players will advance a level.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#307

Btw I've been holding off posting to give Kassy a chance to post with Ayna, or is Carly still playing her? Or are you back to NPcing her Val? Just waiting for the GM go ahead before continuing on. :wink:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#308

That is a question. Not sure if Kassy is going to resume posting or not.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#309

So do I keep posting for Ayna or what? :huh:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#310

Until she does, yes.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#311

Gah! Sorry I'm not keeping up, I'm still re-reading everything and trying to remember it all. Carly can keep playing with her for now, she's doing great. I will post once I'm fully up to speed and ready.

Again, I'm sorry for the confusion val! :read:

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#312

Tonight I hope to start on the individual conversions over to 5th ed and posting them.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#313

Your pardon, Mighty valadaar,

Are You still recruiting for this game...?

Inquiring minds...

eldar

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#314

Funny you should ask.. :)

Yes. I'll be posting in the recruiting thread.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#315

Hello everyone. Your attention please. I would like to ask all of you how many of you sees my character's non-killing policy for humanoids as a problem. If a majority of you would rather keep it more fast-paced and not focus on moralistic implications so much, then I am prepared to retire my character. I don't want to be a hindrance to everyone else's enjoyment of the game and constant inter-party conflicts I view as problematic.
I will not take offense if that is currently the case. Sometimes characters simply don't mesh well with others, or we have differing views about what kind of game we wish to be playing. Not a big deal, so please, feel free to speak your minds. Seriously.

I get kind of formal when I'm ponderous, but really, it's okay. We play games to have fun after all. So, yeah.
Oh and I would like to apologise for my absence if it was noticeable, I needed a break after the recent events that transpired and I'm still pretty worn out unfortunately. I will try to do better going forward, regardless of how things turn out.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#316

Posting seems easier than PM for some reason, so replying here.

I think while having a pacifistic character will cause conflict, especially since it is unlikely the campaign is going to become more peaceful, it adds roleplaying opportunities. I think the stress comes from these opportunities coming at the cost of potential loss to the party.

The Fallout game tended to be very gun/combat happy, but it does dabble from time to time into moral concerns and choices. I would like this game to be no different.

There are going to be situations where conflict with human foes is very likely, even ones where there is no shred of artificial compulsions - Stonehammer militia, Raiders to the east, Asha's abductors, etc. Even without adventuring, normal hunting around Kenebac always carries the possibility of mortal combat with intelligent foes.

This is a dangerous world, and there are cases where peaceable encounters while possible, are highly unlikely. That said, roleplaying out Carnegie's conflict and how she attempts to resolve this incompatibility could be interesting. The only thing I'd ask is to balance the need to play the character as designed with the party's goals and situation.

I like Carnegie. I like that she brings a new angle. I like the Carnege-Elvis dynamic. I would like everyone to work together to let this work.

As to how our clear warmonger newcomer will integrate, I need to think on that a little. Tusserk, please chime in or PM me as you may. Ideally, one of you should work in some form of existing tie with his character to make integration better. And no, he's not an acquaintance of Marcus :P

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#317

Well Mr. Creed is not in the game yet, but as a follower of the Sainted Sun Tzu, Lord and Master of War, he would most likely be nodding in agreement that killing sucks and then continue to do so as needed.

Only the soldier trains for war while praying for peace.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#318

I have no issues with a passive character being part of the party, Kaylee in Firefly was also passive and was unable to bring herself to kill people either, and that worked out fine for their group dynamic. I think the main issue isn't so much her being unwilling to kill intelligent foes, but the possibility of her trying to interfere with the rest of us killing raiders, bandits and other ilk we wind up fighting. (Jumping between two parties trading bullets in an attempt to stop the conflict usually never ends well :P )

In character, Asha was more surprised by Carnegie's unexpected pacifistic outlook than upset or anything by it since she'd never encountered anyone before that who had a problem with killing those that were trying to kill them. (and wasn't thrilled by the initial idea of trying to take down bad guys armed with guns using stun sticks for obvious reasons.)

Although is it killing intelligent foes she has a problem with? Or injuring them at all?

Which reminds me of a Firefly quote:

Zoë: Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killin'?
Book: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.

If it"s just killing them then she could still fight and just adjust her aim accordingly.

Regardless, now Asha knows Carnegie isn't willing to kill intelligent bad guys she's likely to anticipate her taking cover in those scenarios and not engaging in the fight and keep an eye out to make sure no bad guys try to take advantage of Carnegie not fighting back.

In short I'm fine with your char's moral issue with killing I don't see it as being a party breaking issue now the entire group is are aware of it, and once word spreads it might even work to your character/the groups benefit when dealing with certain groups of survivors in the waste who approve of/admire your moral outlook.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#319

Okay, so the general consensus so far seems to be, pain in the ass but a tolerable and occasionally interesting one? :P Fair enough. In all seriousness though, I would definately think twice about doing something directly detrimental to the party, as long as noone is taking pot-shots at innocent/unarmed/non-threatening peeps.

The way I see it, she'll either harden and grow cynical or find some way to maintain at least a part of her "purity", but I would like it to evolve naturally, so nothing that will happen over night. Ideally though, I would rather she meet death than intentionally kill a humanoid. It sounds weird, but I dunno, it feels like that's the best way to be true to her. How would someone well adjusted turn into a killer anyways (not counting soldiers), it would have to be under incredible duress and even then I still feel many people would just give up and accept death rather than fight back. Could depend on the situation, or the person, or both. I'm not really playing to win I guess, I'm playing to create a narrative that hopefully everyone can enjoy.

I wouldn't call her passive, she's a follower though who would only reluctantly lead. And it's not like she's an escort mission either, get her any other enemy and she'll kick ass. I couldn't very well have a hunter who would be against killing animals. I actually did play one such character though, who prefered even to spare a pack of panthers, and I pulled it off too. ^^ I dunno what it is about pbps but they bring out the pacifist in me it seems.

That's a funny quote. :) Yeah injuring (at least minorly so) in the case of self-defense ought to be alright as long as me injuring them doesn't lead to anyone else of you finishing them off as I said earlier, then I would be helping you murdering them and that's a different story. Just think about what any average person on the street would agree to in such a situation. I get that it's a crapsack world and all that, but not everyone could have turned into casual murderers surely. Any functioning mostly stable world needs bread and butter people.

Re: Therafter Out of Game Discussion

#320

It really depends on the size of the settlement as to how well non-warriors can be accommodated. Kenebac is really still small enough to be precarious, and so her strong pacifism is atypical.

That said, there should be plenty of opportunity for her to have more guilt-free combat, and plenty that will test her resolve, your actions depending of course. But wheels are turning.