Setting Forge · Legacy archive
Refuge Beneath the Waves
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Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#81Stop framing what I am saying in terms of conflict or no conflict. You like some Fox News anchor saying that if I disagree regarding water right issues I must hate America. Am I talking about conflicts or theme? Can you think of example in pop media in which a story or movie had subplot or scene that is so theamticly divergent as to be distracting? -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#82Look as I said to you in chat that I VERY much want to be the junior partner in this, I'm just throwing out ideas. Do with them as you want. I would even delete some if that is what you want with NO hard feelings.Your tone seems like I upset you, I'm sorry if I did. I thought I was answering your question. As far as I'm concerned it's MM, then you, THEN me. And that's the way I want it.With that said , what kind of answer are you looking for from me? -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#83Kind of reading between the lines (I haven't read the city descriptions yet, so hopefully I'm not missing anything essential to the conversation) I think I see where Maxx is coming from. This isn't a setting where any uneducated peasant can farm some land. There's a lot of need for skilled/educated laborers, and I can see that influencing the culture to reward those laborers more. Also, if I'm understanding, what he's saying is that any slave revolt could potentially be easily devastating to the infrastructure (and maybe there's a settlement somewhere that failed *because* a revolt made it unlivable) which might make the upper classes nervous enough to make some concessions.
So, maybe in some settlements, there's more equality, but I can also see the educated/upper class really feeling superior to the uneducated masses. For, without them, the whole world would literally come crumbling down or grind to a halt. I could also see a Chinese factory level economy where the working class gets just enough training to do a particular task and then is, for all intents and purposes, a slave. So, there may be a smaller number of well-educated and rich at the top, and a whole lot of barely trained peasants at the bottom who can do nothing to improve their station and just want to keep their families fed.
I expect some of that will shake out as we fill out the settlements and subcultures. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#84We weren't discussing the cities, we were discussing how much if a dystopian bend to put on the setting. But discussion of slavery or any whole say objectification or oppression of people falls under that category, -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#85I definitely want there to be a heavy dystopian bent to the setting. That's a key source of the setting conflict. While a part of me wants to get drawn into the cool tech and humanity-inspiring aspects of an underwater world, the inhumanity should be a key part of this particular setting. Maybe there isn't outright slavery (beyond the first years when anyone who wanted to live agreed to any conditions in order to stay alive) but oppression of the unwashed masses should make the distinction a little grey.
Does that help? -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#86yes
I'm def gonna wait till you catch up on things till I post anymore content, plus I switched mental gears back to fantasy -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#87I'll try to catch up with you guys in chat when there's an opportunity. Should make it easier to hash some of this stuff out. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#88It is a fair criticism of most steam punk that it glorifies an era and sensibility that was very oppressive to many peoples. But was victorian england a dystopia? Did the people live in fear? I think the class struggle and the oppression of the poor should not be ignored, but perhaps there should be some championing of the culture as well. If this goes dystopian it may be too much a Deadlands underwater reboot.
Perhaps we bring up the nationalism.
But let me say it in game:
This second exodus to the deep business, this expansion from surviving to thriving it couldn’t have been any sooner than today. We had to recover that bit of overselves that allowed to us to flee the surface and build vibrant life in place unnatural for humanity. Oh the stock of men we had on hand beneath the waves 20 years ago or 40 years go, they could have fled the surface and into the mines, but they couldn’t have built the domes, they couldn’t have built Rawlwick, or Jasper, or Svezeload, or Stad. No! Building a shining city beneath the deep, that wasn’t surviving that was hope. That was religion. The Spanish weren’t good at, neither were the Indians, and certainly none of the colonials. To repeat a mass migration of not only men, but culture you needed to reestablish the exact relationship between the classes. To do this the first time you had to have whole-souled sentimental commitments to your way of life. It took nothing less than that to look in the face of the apocalypse and say
“Well Roger, let us say we take our tea beneath the waves.”
To have that sort of spirit you had to remember Christmas’s with potato salad, Gulasch and carp being consumed under a portrait of the Crown Prince and his seven sons. You had to have crystal recollections of little cafes in Cherbourg or Brest or the Beer Gardens of Rodstock, clam bakes on the outer banks, the smell of chickoree in your grandfather’s coffee, the gossip over a bottle of whiskey behind barn or the songs of little girls skipping rope. This kind dedication was invented by the writers, the painters and who ever wrote Yanky Doodle; not by generals, kings or social engineers. It wasn’t the factory bosses or philosophers that look us beneath the waves it was our grandmother’s stories of her childhood. It was the trusting handshake of the country deacon or the playful scolding of the spinster librarian. We didn’t submerge ourselves and our songs out of a need to survive. We did it out love. The trip beneath the waves was the last great romance, a whole generation of middle class love sunk.
Now we are ready to love again. Now we have love again. Today a Rawlwick boy can tell you which Manta Ray won the derby four years running and which musical was playing at Marina Maximus each year. A Philly girl tell you the age of cow by the smell of you steak, and those North Sea Folk can list everyone of their ancestors who chose the salt drink so that others could live. Humanity is in love with itself again. Humanity is ready to move again.
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Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#89Alternatively: Dystopian Oklelai
Kill Day:
Kraig was awoken by the high pitch bell that rung when a message arrived by pneumatic tube. He smiled, because the arrival of message meant that it was Kill Day, and as an official Tab keeper he get to spend some time in dry room once he me the quota.
Despite his anticipation Kraig still moved slowly. His trench foot was extremely painful, but right at this moment it wasn’t bothering him. He knew such position of no pain were rare, so he tried to reach the pneumatic tube slot with rising from his sleep platform. He failed.
To keep from slipping of his platform he had to place one large hand into the brackish water that stood three inches deep on the floor of his 7ft by 3ft cabin. The water was cold and stunk of salt and sewage. With his left hand he pulled out the message tube, and then slid himself back onto the platform. Pain was stabbing into foot like a knife, and were didn’t hurt it itched like fire. Only once he had the paper message out of the tube did he turn on the light. The cost of electricity in the “Belows” had become prohibitive.
“Seventeen,” he said aloud. “That seems a lot, we lost thirty-three to dysentery just this month.” He was alone, nobody answered. Even if somebody would shack up with a Tab Keeper, Kraig had tastes that drove most potential lovers away. But being alone in his activity never stopped Kraig and he continued speaking to himself anyway “Well it is not my place to interpret the bosses, I am sure there must be O2 tank out or another leak or something”
Kraig climbed out of bed with much discomfort and check his piston apparatus. The nitrogen tanks was about halfway full. “That should be enough to do 17,” he said. He had done 15 once a half tank and still had some leftover. He decided to oil the piston just in case. He took the pistol handled device down from shelf and with dropper of oil applied some lubricant to the device. He then connected the piston to the tank with its hose, opened the tank’s valvce and pulled the trigger on the piston. A dense metal rod shot six inches of the gun with startling hiss. Kraig released the trigger and the pistion retracted. He gave it good wipe down even though he had cleaned it well since last kill day.
With his crutches allowing him to keep his sick right foot out of most water, Kraig made his to the 1st shift hall. He banged against the steel beam the hung by the bulk head and the all the twelve dozen workers in the sewage treatment facility lined up outside there respective tanks. Kraig addressed them, “Kill you ugly toads? I need 17 of yous, any body volunteering toss their tag in the sack I am passing around. Yous all knows this story. If enough weak scum bags volunteer than everybody I choose after 17 gets to spend the day dry.”
Kraig passed the small leather bag around and watched absently as people passed it. When it came back to him he opened it up and counted only 16 tags. “Alright, you dumb wastes of air, only 16, only 16, well that I mean I get to pick 17.” Kraig called out the names from the tag in the back. As he each person’s name was called and they stepped forward. Then he placed his piston gun against their head and pulled the trigger. Their body dropped into black sewage water. It was tough going on crutches and anyone of them could have topple Kraig and taken his weapon. But they didn’t.
At tag number 15 a boy of no more than 11 stepped forward. He was smooth skinned, almost clean looking and had a long mop of light brown hair. “Who told you put your tag in boy,” Kraig asked.
The boy said “My Momma” and gesture at the eightmonth pregnant woman standing behind the boy.
Kraig balance his way over to the woman. “Though by pushing the boy in you might live huh, or did yous just not like the boy. Well I tell yous this, yous both gonna die know you disgusting whore slut,” with that Kraig raised his piston to her chest and fired it repeatedly into her heart. Blood sprayed him and the woman smacked his across the face has she died. Kraig managed to hild his balance though.
“I got two left before I hit 17, the boy here and…” Kraig looked at the last “a Zelda F.” A stunningly attractive if malnourished and filthy woman stepped forward and said I a, “Zelda F.”
“Well I am out of gas,” responded Kraig. “Boy you come with me, and Zelda I got your Tab.”
Kraig swung out the sewage bay on his crutches and over to the lift that went up to the Police level one. He showed the Police man on the lift his Kill Day note and the Police man opened the door to let them. “This boy number 18” the policeman asked.
“Nah, I just ran out of gas. Figured I would take him up to the dry room and have some fun with him.”
The Policeman nodded in agreement as the lift took them out of the sewage. “He is dead anyway huh.”
“Yup I got his Tab.”
“Tell you what I will do,” the Policeman said. “I will take care of the boy, here, you won’t have to go refill your tank for him. Just leave in the dry room when you are done.”
“Yous serious?”
“Yeah, we elevated people got help each other man”
“Thanks chief, that is solid favor” Kraig replied. Then Kraig left the lift so excited that he didn’t even notice the pain his rotting foot. The boy, not knowing what else to do followed Kraig. Luckily the boy was unconscious when Kraig finished with him and the Policeman came around for his turn.
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Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#90Wow, super dark, nasty fun(?). I think there is room for all of it. Some fair places ,some awful. With a lot in between . One thing I don't get is population levels? How are we thinking on that? -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#91Ok I know I said no content but d**n you axle you inspired me again
FEDE (ITALIAN FOR FAITH)
Founded by the Italians and the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the Mediterranean, just south of Sicily. The Med was a very poor choice to put a habitat in. It was too close to the major combat areas of Europe and as such is still heavily polluted. Unable to agree on anything,the final construction was hurried and slipshod.
60% of the population died in the first 5 years. That's when the Vatican representatives stepped in and in a bloodless coup, took control of the government.
For a while it worked. With the reduced population ,there was plenty of everything to go around. The Cardinals and priests that ran the government , made one huge mistake. They failed to institute population control.
Now Fede is overpopulated and failing. It is an easy target for raiders looking for a quick buck.The ruling caste has almost no special privileges. They eat with the common folk and live communally.But there is not enough of anything to go around, strikes, riots and mayhem are rampant. The government ,while good intentioned, is almost helpless. Unions are forming, communist cells are forming and violent gangs run the black market.
In an attempt to circumvent some of the unrest, the government is doing a major investment in infrastructure, and building multiple additional primary facilities(Power plants, Oxygen supply, hydroponics). Both to spread these facilities around and to keep the workers busy. The longer shifts are only adding to the strife.
(tyrany of the masses, ala the French Revolution) -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#92Ok, axle, Kill Day is maybe a little darker than I was thinking.
It is a fair criticism of most steam punk that it glorifies an era and sensibility that was very oppressive to many peoples. But was victorian england a dystopia? Did the people live in fear? I think the class struggle and the oppression of the poor should not be ignored, but perhaps there should be some championing of the culture as well. If this goes dystopian it may be too much a Deadlands underwater reboot.
Perhaps we bring up the nationalism.
I like this much better. Imagine nationalism concentrated into crowded underwater cities. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#93The city writeups are good, btw. I'm thinking I should make a Gazetteer codex where these kinds of things can be written up and linked together.
Also, I appreciate you guys forging ahead so far. I find myself a little overwhelmed when it comes to managing this kind of project.
My goal for the next couple of days is to create some content of my own, as well as provide some of the history I promised earlier. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#94One more thought... I'm thinking maybe focus on Rawlwick and axle's writeup of the waters off of Spain and Morocco for the initial region, with a little drift into New Philly and Stad as alternative styles and influences. Those should be enough to get a game started. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#95A few notes (taken from ideas in a round-table discussion at the con; not necessarily currently relevant with the focus on the Atlantic):
Japan
Floating cities. With the seismic acitivity around Japan, it would be dangerous to plant the cities on the sea floor. Rather, they developed cities which float on the surface of the water but are attached via tremendous cables to the sea floor below. The parts above water are protected by having no seams whatsoever, preventing the weaponized kalleum from entering.
South America
Possibly a place of conflict, as it had resources but little technology. Perhaps a number of cities were built around it.
Scandinavia
Cities built either in the fjords or where they meet the ocean.
Additional
Scavenging & slums in areas of failed or partially failed cities
Take from real world examples of history but tweak them for the setting. For example, making India a tech center.
How does long-distance communication work?
Who were the geniuses?
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Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#96Don't think I care for the idea of tethered cities
1) Wouln't you end up with a whole seasick city all the time?
2)If it worked EVERYBODY else would do it.
maybe could be done in micro but still doen't strike me as practical
my 2 cents -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#97The seismic activity would make fixed tethers a disadvantage, as it would hold the city in place so they would not rise with Tsunamis, but be very quickly submerged by them. Also, the shock would likely transfer through the tether removing much of the advantage of a floating city - they will be yanked around as the earth moves.
Instead of a fixed tether, maybe you have anchor points which are tethered at fixed depths and fitted with beacons. The cities have claws that can attach to the tether most of the time, but are free to detach as needed. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#98I agree that the concept needs some work, I just wanted to get the basics down and then return to focusing on a small region in the Atlantic. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#99Do you want me to adapt New Philly to the area we are concentrating on, it could easily be European instead of American? -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#100I was thinking of focusing on Rawlwick, but I like having some details about New Philly available, because it will have an influence on the PbP. So, no, feel free to develop New Philly further. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#101Ok I've got some cool specifics about the complex politics when next my muse strikes and I get computer time -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#102Awesome! Looking forward to it. And I need to get my butt in gear on Rawlwick. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#103iLL GIVE YOU A HINT
rock,paper,scissors,lizard ,spock -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#104added the addition of specifics to New Philly -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#105Been pondering this, and I've come to 2 main conclusions: 1) I've been totally unprepared to lead this whole thing and 2) A forum thread is a horrible place to do any kind of organized design work.
I'm going to be away for a time (hopefully only a few days, but could be longer, depending) and I'm going to keep pondering on this. There must be a better way to go about the design. -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#106really sad! -
Re: Refuge Beneath the Waves
#107I liked this setting, some years after working on this a bit I dropped by a friends place for a weekend and played in a game of "Deadlands". Never heard of that setting before? Was the boiling rock thing in deadlands?