Quest Planning

1. Quest Planning

   #1

   Okay.  Shards of the Storm is over, the finalists are being voted on, and I suppose someone is trying to work out prizes.  We should probably go ahead and start planning for the next one, so we can start it as soon as Shards is finalized.
   
   So, ideas for the next quest?  Items, People, Plots, Groups, Lifeforms, etc?  Personally, since we did items this time around, I think we should go with something else...
   
   Also, is there some way we can take the timer off of the completed quests?  The negative time annoys me.

2. Re: Quest Planning

   #2

   How about "Saints". Every one puts forth one saint. There could be some parameters in place like keeping the "fantastic elements" to a minimum, and concentrating on somewhat realistic martyrs and prophets, or establishing a certain religion which everyone needs to adhere too. Just a thought.
   
   

3. Re: Quest Planning

   #3

   Might as well throw out my idea, as well.
   
   Deviant Religions.  These are not the stereotypical, demon-worshipping cults of DOOM.  These are the groups (accepted or not) that make people go "What the hell is wrong with these people?"  Best example I can think of is "The Cloister of the Empty Table."
   
   Either way, I'm gonna eventually make a codex out of this idea.

4. Re: Quest Planning

   #4

   I have three ideas
   
   Sky This post has something to do with sky. It could be an arial dungeon (hard clouds... hey that is an idea), items that fly/ float, manipulate wind, or related to flying, flying lifeforms, floating locations, NPCs that are pilots or fliers, plots centered around the above, flying societies, and if you can think of a system... that is good too.
   
   Second:  Lands and Flags:  I would like to propose people put out generic countries or continents. These are the two location areas we have minimum entries in.  These are generic countries (or continents) that are somewhat general in their write up, so they can be dropped anywhere. I am sure some of these will be mirror countries or odd fantasy affairs, but it might be interesting to see what comes out. Note: If there is a country (or other post) that is so intrical to the other country's post, it must be submitted as a linked post (or the original post is invalid).
   
   The Piece must be new, so no Arth or Hewdamia posts, and minimal building on other posts.
   
   Articles: Everyone has a useful opinion on something.
   

5. Re: Quest Planning

   #5

   Anyone else got ideas?

6. Re: Quest Planning

   #6

   I like Moon's continents thing, but any subcategory would do. Might as well use it to try and fluff up some of the lesser used. Either way, next one we do needs to be ONE single subcategory. That is the way it is built and I would like to have that tested.
   
   After that, we can move to try multiple categories and I will work that out.
   
   Then, maybe we can try a character based off of http://www.strolen.com/guild/index.php/topic,2293.msg42120.html#msg42120 . They would have to copy and paste the generator's results to the end of their post or something.

7. Re: Quest Planning

   #7

   Okay.  First quest is over and done with, and if no one objects, I guess I'll take charge of questy-things for the future.  I'd like to get the next one decided on as soon as we can, so if anyone else has got some quest ideas, now is the time to say so.
   
   Also, do we want to vote on the next thing, or should I just pick a suggestion I like?

8. Re: Quest Planning

   #8

   Hey Strolen.  You know that problem we had with every submission going into the quest (which is why the next one must be a single subcategory).  How hard would it be to add a check box or a "type of submission" to the submission form, and determine quest submissions that way?

9. Re: Quest Planning

   #9

   How about everyone posting their interesting, and unique City Guard :bat: organizations for the next Quest?
   
   For example
   [falhathian guilds#15535|The Gold Talons]

10. Re: Quest Planning

    #10

    
    Hey Strolen.  You know that problem we had with every submission going into the quest (which is why the next one must be a single subcategory).  How hard would it be to add a check box or a "type of submission" to the submission form, and determine quest submissions that way?
    

    
    
    Hmmm... yet another submission checkbox?
    
    Why not make the quest also with a freetext option - in that every quest submission must have a certain freetext. That way pretty much any kind of submission could make it into the quest. (Remember the Mercenary challenge - there were groups as NPCs, even items, I think.)

11. Re: Quest Planning

    #11

    Devil's Advocate
    
    1) The Quest was not necessarily made to have sweeping top end categories that encompass so many things. It is really not much of a quest when all you are doing is asking for something mercenary related. The main idea behind the Quest in the first place was to help us refocus on some of the neglected areas where we don't get much action. Hence a Quest and a reward because you are doing something for us (the Citadel) by filling an ignored category.
    
    2a) Once you add a tick box or a freetext field, you are now putting your trust in the author to a) know what they are doing and b) using it the way it is supposed to be used. So I put a tick box in, it will show up on *every* submission no matter how close it is to the real quest. Now I have to bring in quest information for those that don't know or care that a quest is going on for them to review the quest criteria and see if they fall under it. Many will click it anyway regardless of their category submission, on accident or otherwise. On top of that, many Quest submissions won't be marked correctly because the author's weren't sure or they forgot check the box, so now we have to hunt down, or accidently stumble upon, submissions that might fall into a quest category.
    
    2b)  If we use the Freetext area, the above problems will be compounded and if somebody fulfills a quest and it doubles for Hewdamia or Keren or whatever, you take away their freetext option to post it in their world.
    
    2c) To remove/add these Quests we have to physically edit their submission which will, in turn, update their "Updated Last" value. For those that watch their submissions they will wonder what people are doing to their submissions. So now I also have to code more stuff to remove that update when the Quest value is changing.
    
    3) To remove somebody from a quest is a single click on a link by an admin when reviewing their submission. All Quests are easily reviewed  right now and are organized together in the Quest link. So, to find an out of place Quest there is no hunting, just a quick scan of all the Quests that were submitted to see if any are out of place. Often times, like in the past, the author will even tell us that it is not a Quest item and 'click' it is removed.
    
    4) The Quest system is already setup the current way. To take into account either suggestion I would have to do a lot of rewriting of code to include the extra logic and extra Quest removal checks on the submission page instead of my 3 line script in the content area.
    
    
    I honestly didn't have in mind the Shard type Quest thing when I created the Quest and it turned out awesome. That one was what forced me to make a 'remove' button in the first place. I, personally, don't think that the system in place needs to be changed. No matter what, the Quest is going to require Admin Moderation, and I think it is simpler to identify and fix the occassional things which slip by that are not Quests then to do it the other ways mentioned.
    
    What I can do is allow the Author himself to remove it from the Quest, which I haven't done.
    
    While both the ideas do have merit, they just don't justify themselves to me.
    
    

12. Re: Quest Planning

    #12

    *shrugs*  It was just an idea.  I know next to nothing of coding, so I'm not going to be terribly upset if my ideas don't get used.  :lol:
    
    Anyway.  Next quest.

13. Re: Quest Planning

    #13

    I didn't want to just say "no" and it let me think it through too. ;)
    
    Next quest. :D

14. Re: Quest Planning

    #14

    Ideas so far:
    
    City Guards
    Sky
    Lands and Flags/Continents
    Articles
    Deviant Religions
    Saints
    
    Do any of these not fit a single subcategory?  Does anyone else have suggestions?

15. Re: Quest Planning

    #15

    Maybe anything Dungeon orientated. That is an entire category that is neglected. We could possibly double it with a quest.

16. Re: Quest Planning

    #16

    Yeah, but what subcategory?

17. Re: Quest Planning

    #17

    No subcategory. Just plain Dungeons. Need everything for it pretty much. Only 42 submissions in the entire category. We got 39 for the shards quest.
    
    Just a thought. Can have whatever quest that is agreed on.
    
    Maybe come up with some possibilities and put it on the main Citadel to vote for the next quest.

18. Re: Quest Planning

    #18

    Okay, so add Dungeon whatever to the list.  Anyone else got ideas, or should we make with deciding?

19. Re: Quest Planning

    #19

    I like the dungeon idea. Even if many of us has ventured beyond the days of dungeon delving, I bet we could produce some p-u-r-t-y nice subs!
    
    Another thing that I would like is:
    City adventures (City plots and items/NPCs with city-related plot hooks)

20. Re: Quest Planning

    #20

    Okay, I think that's a pretty good selection of stuff.  Now, how do we decide?  Vote amongst ourselves, just pick one, put it out on the main forum and have everyone vote?
    
    List o' Possibilities
    
    City Guards
    Sky
    Lands and Flags/Continents
    Articles
    Deviant Religions
    Saints
    Dungeon
    City Adventures

21. Re: Quest Planning

    #21

    let the plebs decide, put it to a Citadel vote, so we have a better idea of what more people are going to post to.

22. Re: Quest Planning

    #22

    Starting to collect suggestions for next quest.  Should I just keep the ones we had before, or does anyone have new ideas?
    
    Secondly, the dungeon quest ends at the end of the month.  Should I go ahead and post the next one when it's over, and conduct the voting on the winner while the new quest is going on, or put topics for a vote during the same two weeks that I'm going to run the voting?

23. Re: Quest Planning

    #23

    My thought is to not start the new quest till the winner is announced. I would like the winner announcement up for about a week or so before the new quest is started sort of like last time so they get their well earned glory and we don't overflow the index with announcements.
    
    Quest ends, poll for winner, winners are decided and announced, poll for new quest, remove winner announcement and add new quest.

24. Re: Quest Planning

    #24

    okies, so that's the time frame.  Is the length of this quest good, as in should I keep it about the same for the next, or was it too long/short?

25. Re: Quest Planning

    #25

    1 month is decent. The first quest was way too long. Nicely done.
    
    Quest ideas: Look in the categories and check if we are low on some of them. Dungeons were in demand so next might be... Well, articles are boring so anything but articles :p

26. Re: Quest Planning

    #26

    I can put together a pretty impressive list of sub-cats that don't have a whole lot.  I need to whittle it down.  May also include a couple of the previous ideas that had some interest.

27. Re: Quest Planning

    #27

    Dont forget, Winners get t-shirts!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :up:

28. Re: Quest Planning

    #28

    t-shirts....mmmmmmmmmmm
    
    (do we get to see pictures?)

29. Re: Quest Planning

    #29

    Random ideas -
    The following sub-cats have fewer than 20 submissions.  I'm leaving out Articles, because I agree that that would be boring, Dungeons because we just did that, Plots because I'm not entirely sure how to go about that, and Systems because even though they don't seem to get much love, that would just be hard, I think.
    
    Item: Transports
    Item: Blunt weapons
    Unique life forms
    Locations: Continents
    Locations: Country/State
    Location: Fortification
    Location: Regional
    Location: Ruins
    Location: Transworld
    Society: Agricultural
    Society: Artistic/Performance
    Society: Political
    Society: Knowledge/Lore
    Society: Mercantile
    Society: Natural
    Society: Technical
    Society: Travellers
    
    Any of these just speak to any of you?

30. Re: Quest Planning

    #30

    I need to read all the dungeons before I vote. My SO HATES me sitting in front of the computer... Never in the field of human conflict did one girlfriend verbally abuse her lazy arse boyfriend as much as this...
    
    I need more than one week after we finish to do this. Could we say two weeks? I'd hate to vote on a winner if I don't know if it actually is the best.

31. Re: Quest Planning

    #31

    Once the quest ends, I'll pick out the finalists, and then the whole Citadel gets two weeks to vote on the winners, so no worries. 
    
    I'm still trying to figure out what the next set of options will be.  The way it's worked out, August will be spent voting and such.  Two weeks for the winners, then two more weeks to decide on the next quest, which is probably gonna start on Sept 1.

32. Re: Quest Planning

    #32

    sounds good...what is your criteria for "finalists"? I think almost every dungeon posted is worthy to be included.

33. Re: Quest Planning

    #33

    Have to have a total vote score of 4.5 or better, and be on topic.

34. Re: Quest Planning

    #34

    This is a replica of the text I put in another thread. I post it here because it is relevant here as well:
    
    The current system seems to have, in my honest opinion, some deficits.
    1. The time between each quest is too short. Right now a quest is a chore and not a joy. When they hit you like machine gun fire, you know they occur too frequently. Perhaps that is fine with some, but to me it is unneccessary noise that makes them more a nuisance than a bonus. I fear the users will ignore quests should this continue. This pertains in particular to the mature part of our crowd.
    2. The quest planning could also need some more time. To create compelling quests, I believe it is prudent that we plan well and long, to truly come up with something exciting and genuine. The present two week deadline in which only neglected subjects and old, recycled ideas are accepted seem poor to me. Personally I have a career, but I would still like to have a say in the quest planning. Currently that would be difficult, as the timeline per se fits students and unemployed, and not those of us with demanding jobs.
    3. There is still not any general agreement concerning the finalists. I consider the 4.5 limit preposterous and the arguments, though articulate and sincere, have not persuaded me of anything. I truly believe that a hall of honour says more than a high vote. A high vote is an indication of quality, but not bullet proof evidence of superiority. You all know that posts are evaluated differently, and one 4.6 might easily be poorer than a 4.3. An indication of this would be the 4.6 had no HoH's, while the 4.3 might be flooded with HoH's. Therefore I say that to neglect goldens and halls of honour is a great injustice and insult to that submission. High votes are too closely tied to herd voting, tactical voting and the audience in general to be the lone determining factor of quality.

35. Re: Quest Planning

    #35

    I agree loosely with AG's sentiments in terms of quests, however my inactivity both in the quests and the site of late may make my opinion not quite as relavent :)
    
    1. As with AGs thoughts, I think the quests shouldn't take place so soon after one another - with a bit of time to recuperate, submissions would be of a far higher quality, in my opinion.
    
    2. I'd love to see some very inventive quests; moreso than something like "Post a certain society" or "Make a Mercantile NPC". Still ask people a general view of what they'd like to see for the next quest, but once the voting has finished, make an actual storyline/backplot behind it that everyone has to expand on. For example, if the 'unique lifeforms' vote won, you could expand on that and give a little background, even just a sentence which all posts must have;
    "Few risk walking the streets at night, nowdays. Ever since the 'incident', people sometimes wake up in the morning to find a new mangled corpse splayed across the dusty street. Where this place was once a peaceful town, now its residents lived in fear."
    - From this sentence, any multitude of lifeforms come to my mind in seconds: A mutant from an experiment gone wrong, A demon who broke free of its shackles once summoned by a warlock. Even just a unique 'circus animal' which broke free after a raid on the circus caravans. You could make a sci-fi twist and make it a robot of some description which had faulty programming.
    
    Or if you wanted, you could even have several different choices of sentences for the quest, and the people have to choose ONE of the sentences as a basis for their submission.
    Also, if you're stuck for thoughts of the sentences you might want to put down for a submission, you could post in here and ask the other admins to help out with them. I'm sure between the admins we can come up with three or four of em.
    
    3. I also agree that the 4.5 minimum required vote, while a valid idea in theory, doesn't necessarily work as well as it could. I have two thoughts on this subject. One bieng that we could have no limit as such, and just let it work itself out in the end when each person votes on their favourites. My other thought is to keep the 4.5 minimum, but if a submission has 2 or more HoH's to it's name, waver the 4.5 minimum and let it be part of the quest regardless. (2 or more simply because Cheka Man's certain to put one up anyway :P)
    
    Anyway. That's my 3 cents. Feel free to ignore it completely ;)
    

36. Re: Quest Planning

    #36

    I think that we should just forget it for now. We can deal with it after Son of Quest- WHICH I WANT VERY EAGERLY TO START

37. Re: Quest Planning

    #37

    Two days, Cap.  You can last two days.

38. Re: Quest Planning

    #38

    NOOOOOO
    
    *scrapes the skin off his face*

39. Re: Quest Planning

    #39

    Well the quest is now well on its way and 3 subs from 2 authors is the only thing we've got this far.
    
    This would be a good time to vent your creativity, CP, or this quest is gonna fall flat on its stomach.

40. Re: Quest Planning

    #40

    Nah, it is early yet. We got plenty of time before we can even think about starting to call it a bust.

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