Strolen's Citadel

Pulp Fiction · Legacy archive

Amazon eBooks

Started by Scrasamax Jul 6, 2015 75 posts Locked

  1. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #41
    Depends on how serious i am about the project. Sometimes I'll  lay out a project in LibreOffice Writer, but usually I'll use Scribus.

  2. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #42
    I started with Scribus, but the professional templates Strolen had made were with indesign.  Strolen is more familiar with indesign as well.  I have a scribus based version of the Paths of Horror kicking around somewhere.

    Much of the editing can be done outside of the final formatting/typesetting, so it might not be the end of the world.Most of the stuff Moon is finding is basic text editing as opposed to layout.


    Axle:

    How much difference in layout would an amazon e-pub be from, for example, the Paths of Horror? Admittedly I am a newbie with the layout/typographical stuff, but there is a great deal of editing even on this fairly small pub.

    I don't think we necessarily need to be married to the layout tool - we could decide on a project by project basis, and it would not be too long before we had good templates for both platforms. If as Axle mentions the Amazon e-pubs don't need a lot of formatting - such as not double columned, few sections,etc, than the fiction based epubs might make sense for scribus.  For the more magaziney pubs - such as the Strolenite - we can stick to indesign and those without access to that tool can contribute through pre-editing the manuscripts before we drop em in for layout.

    Thoughts?  I don't think we want to exclude anything/anyone at this point.

    Also, we only need to fork out money at the start for external efforts such as Art I would think. Between ourselves I would think we could simply deal with distribution of any profits from sales based on level of contribution.  I think we should at least try doing most of it using our internal talents before we start paying anyone. We can try, and if it tanks, try again and put money in if we need to.











  3. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #43
    The part i enjoy the most is the actual layout. The editing, and frankly, even the writing is all for the payoff of doing the layout for me.

  4. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #44
    Okay, then I think we have a rough idea of who would be contributing on the commercial epubs:
    Production Team
    Layout and templates: Strolen, Val and Fan
    Graphics: Strolen and Fan
    Proof-reader: Moonlake

    Writers
    Scras
    Moonlake
    Axle
    Strolen?
    Longspeak?

    And I agree with Val of using in-house talent first and distributing profits amongst ourselves based on level of contribution. Frankly, I have reservations of hiring an external editor. I like Val's approach of preserving original writer voice with the Horror e-book. One could argue that we (as a collective) are greener at doing fiction than gaming material but I don't think that's sth unsolvable through feedback within the epub writer's group.

  5. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #45
    I wouldn't put Fan out of the layout and templates yet.  He probably has more bandwidth then I - I have no idea really, I just know mine is fairly small and in the scope of the fiction epub having to recreate a good template based on the look of the strolen template should not be too hard. 







  6. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #46
    I thought Fan said he's only interested in doing the graphics and not in making the layout and template, but I just re-read it and apparently I was wrong so I just fixed it in my previous post.

  7. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #47
    Valad,

    There is some formatting to do, table of contents and such.  But you load the material into a template not unlike a word document.  I haven't actually done this and have only read the instructions so there may be some troubleshooting down the line.  The ebooks usually have a "cover" and can have some art pages in the document.

    You can check some of the amazon eZines to get a feel for how this stuff is put together. Stuff I read on Kindle are Bourbon Pen, Plasma Frequency, Interzone and Jupiter 42.

    If we do put an ebook together, why don't we all donate the material to Strolen, if turns a profit he can put it back into the site and it is very successful and if we want to do another than we can break up profit.

  8. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #48

    If we do put an ebook together, why don't we all donate the material to Strolen, if turns a profit he can put it back into the site and it is very successful and if we want to do another than we can break up profit.


    +1 to this idea!

    Also, can we have a definite show of hands on the number of writers? Currently, we just have me and Scras and 3 question marks, what's up with that?

  9. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #49
    I will write something,

    shall we shoot for five to six stories 2000-10000 words by next week or end of the month? Shall we use drop box, google doc or just personal work spaces on site?  Perhaps we set a deadline and the stories that get in by that deadline are included this round.  This way we won't get hung up on waiting for one straggler and deadlines are good even if they may seem a little fascist.

  10. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #50
    How about in 1 month's time? I have to admit that I'm always a bit of a straggler in terms of fiction writing. My best speed is about 4 Chaps of the White Deer length which's b/w 7000-8000 words in a month). Also, currently def show of hands is just Scras, me and you. I was hoping that we will get at least 5 writers but if worse to worst, we will each do 2 stories though I have to admit that I can never do 2000 word stories. My brain isn't geared that way, it loves long epics or at least complicated stuff as I told you.

    Just had a thought: if it's the 3 of us, we could take one of your Parna setting stories already up and tidy it up. But then you still have wait for me and Scras.

  11. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #51
    Hopefully people will come out of the woodwork too. May not want to commit, but still want to write and then suddenly show up with a story. I have learned that I can't really commit to any timelines. My job is the main culprit of that, and if I even do end up being able to write something, not sure it will be worth a damn. Quality control will have to be another, smaller factor. If a story is crap, we have to be able to say it and accept it as a group.

    Awesome thread and I am psyched to see all the excitement about it.

    My humble suggestions thinking towards past experience and the mindset of Cult of Done:



    If somebody is willing to do *anything* to assist with this moving forward, the answer will always be "yes, please."
    We should not be locked into any program or format or genre or theme, at least initially. If this pans out the way we hope it won't depend on word, googledocs, forums, markdown, Indesign or scribus fantasy or sci fi. It will hinge on people doing Done. We can adapt to the product and comfort zone of whomever is doing Done. Whatever is Done, we will make it work!
    To continue that thought, I would suggest, at first, to put as few restrictions on anything and just allow each to do as they are motivated to do. Once you put restrictions before there is any Done you are starting to hinder the process of creation. I would suggest that each person go in the direction they are moved and create Done and show it off. Nothing will be wasted, if it isn't usable immediately...it is still Done.
    Art. If we aren't satisfied with what we make, we will go get it. Art is valuable.
    Profit. Nobody likes to talk about it, but it is essential we come up with a formula for sharing. It will be full disclosure to all that are involved and distributed as agreed upon so there are no secrets, confusion or misconceptions about where the money is going.
    Need a private forum to continue serious discussion. None of this needs to be out in the public to those not involved. It is open to anybody, but private.
    There needs to be one person that has final, agreed upon decision authority. Lots of decisions will need to be made and Done gets bogged down by too much discussion. Opinions are vital and must be shared and normally most decisions will be agreed upon, but somebody will need to be empowered by all to take the opinions and create Done from them.
    Weekly accountability (not necessarily show and tell but more like "this is what I accomplished this week and this is my intent") is valuable. Strolenati Sunday for eBooks. It gives a status checkup, accountability, and hopefully some invigoration for Done. It is not a shame fest, if nothing happens in a week/month then that shouldn't be a big deal since we are all just trying to figure it out.
    Editing: I think we will do OK among ourselves if we put on our personal editor hats. But we aren't talking only grammar, editors detect those story issues that are often hard to identify. But I think, for now, an Editor might be beyond what we need. Let us get some Done before we decide we need some outside help.



    ((aside: I am spending this weekend with StrolenCon prep. Only a few people are going but we are still going to make it an awesome event. I have a bunch of things to put together and order which is why I haven't been online here as often. Been reading the thread through email with excitement though!))

  12. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #52
    Hopefully people will come out of the woodwork too. May not want to commit, but still want to write and then suddenly show up with a story. I have learned that I can't really commit to any timelines. My job is the main culprit of that, and if I even do end up being able to write something, not sure it will be worth a d**n. Quality control will have to be another, smaller factor. If a story is crap, we have to be able to say it and accept it as a group.


    If we look at it as partly a writer's group, then even the stories that aren't good can be critiqued and the rejection can simply be for the current issue with the option of revision and resubmission left open.

    Awesome thread and I am psyched to see all the excitement about it.


    Me too.

    My humble suggestions thinking towards past experience and the mindset of Cult of Done:


    If somebody is willing to do *anything* to assist with this moving forward, the answer will always be "yes, please."
    We should not be locked into any program or format or genre or theme, at least initially. If this pans out the way we hope it won't depend on word, googledocs, forums, markdown, Indesign or scribus fantasy or sci fi. It will hinge on people doing Done. We can adapt to the product and comfort zone of whomever is doing Done. Whatever is Done, we will make it work!
    To continue that thought, I would suggest, at first, to put as few restrictions on anything and just allow each to do as they are motivated to do. Once you put restrictions before there is any Done you are starting to hinder the process of creation. I would suggest that each person go in the direction they are moved and create Done and show it off. Nothing will be wasted, if it isn't usable immediately...it is still Done.
    Art. If we aren't satisfied with what we make, we will go get it. Art is valuable.


    Agree with all of this.

    Profit. Nobody likes to talk about it, but it is essential we come up with a formula for sharing. It will be full disclosure to all that are involved and distributed as agreed upon so there are no secrets, confusion or misconceptions about where the money is going.


    Just wanting to throw this out there, but I really liked the idea upthread of this project helping defray the cost of running the website. Perhaps there could be an option of compensation in the form of XP?

    Need a private forum to continue serious discussion. None of this needs to be out in the public to those not involved. It is open to anybody, but private.


    I don't agree that none of it should be out in the public, but most of the nitty gritty should be private. There should be some conversation that is publicly viewable to keep word out and encourage contributors that aren't part of the core group. Not sure what that should be, and perhaps a sticky topic that gets updated as releases happen would be sufficient.

    There needs to be one person that has final, agreed upon decision authority. Lots of decisions will need to be made and Done gets bogged down by too much discussion. Opinions are vital and must be shared and normally most decisions will be agreed upon, but somebody will need to be empowered by all to take the opinions and create Done from them.
    Weekly accountability (not necessarily show and tell but more like "this is what I accomplished this week and this is my intent") is valuable. Strolenati Sunday for eBooks. It gives a status checkup, accountability, and hopefully some invigoration for Done. It is not a shame fest, if nothing happens in a week/month then that shouldn't be a big deal since we are all just trying to figure it out.
    Editing: I think we will do OK among ourselves if we put on our personal editor hats. But we aren't talking only grammar, editors detect those story issues that are often hard to identify. But I think, for now, an Editor might be beyond what we need. Let us get some Done before we decide we need some outside help.


    Agreed.

    This is just an idea I had, but if we consider it more like a magazine than a series of books, we wouldn't need a standard look and feel for the entire book, and instead would have the freedom to customize the look and feel for the content of each "article". Depending on the category of the magazine, we could also accommodate a wider variety of content in this format.

  13. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #53

    We should not be locked into any program or format or genre or theme, at least initially. If this pans out the way we hope it won't depend on word, googledocs, forums, markdown, Indesign or scribus fantasy or sci fi. It will hinge on people doing Done. We can adapt to the product and comfort zone of whomever is doing Done. Whatever is Done, we will make it work!


    Ideally, I would say yes cos I do tend to struggle with set timelines but then there's sth in what Axle said abt waiting for stragglers too. But then there's also sth in what you say about this being for initially, esp. since we're already struggling with confirmed writers.

    And yes to all the rest you two talked about.

  14. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #54
    Regarding if people want to donate their share to strolens - I think this should be an individual decision. This discussion started pretty early on with members wanting to make money with their writing.  Even if its a token amount, to be able to say you made money writing is a big deal :)

    Going to be away from a PC (but still have ipad access) for the next 5 days or so, so if we need a private forum board made, Strolen or another admin will need to do it.


  15. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #55

    Regarding if people want to donate their share to strolens - I think this should be an individual decision. This discussion started pretty early on with members wanting to make money with their writing.  Even if its a token amount, to be able to say you made money writing is a big deal :)


    Agreed, initially I was somewhat excited about this being a commercial venture for the cool factor that you described but then after reading Axle's suggestion I'm like: yes, let's donate it to the Citadel since this is my (our) writer's home and we should do it as a sign of appreciation and gratitude.

  16. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #56
    I wasn't saying that donating proceeds to strolen.com should be the only option, but i think it would be nice as an option.

  17. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #57
    I think we are done with the donation aspect. We will have it as an option for participants and make it ultra flexible too in terms of fine details and let's be done with that. This is a new topic entirely but thinking whether we want to have some independent critics to join the group (i.e. Strolenatis who don't want to declare for the fiction group but just want to read and comment on the work of the fiction group)? My gut feeling is yes but then I'm always the person that wants to as much feedback as possible. Downside is that it might interfere a little with the exclusiveness of work for the commerical epub that Val mentioned? But then again, I would think that the main paying audience for the commercial epub are supposed to be strangers as opposed to established Strolenatis so I'm pro having the work of the fiction group available to public eyes within the Citadel.

  18. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #58
    I am about done with the first draft of the story I am writing for this project.  I would like to share the story in a private "forum" (okay not literally a forum but something that isn't open access. Valad is right, and if the stories are in an open forum they might not pass online plagiarism checkers.

    So who is our editor? 

  19. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #59
    We have a proof-reader which is me, do you have an in-house editor, Val?

  20. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #60
    How is your story coming?

  21. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #61
    Plotted out the full sequence of events for the story in skeleton form but haven't really progressed much.

  22. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #62
    I would like to share the story in a private "forum" (okay not literally a forum but something that isn't open access.


    If you have a google account, you could put it in google docs, and share it with only those who are in the group. Or better yet, we could make a Google Drive folder that is shared with the group as repository of all things eBooks related. Doing it through Google Docs allows others to suggest edits and comment on the story without ever changing the original text. There are other solutions that do this, but Google Docs is free and I'm most familiar with it.

  23. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #63
    I have started a google docs folder.
    PM me an email address you are comfortable with sharing and I will share the folder with you.

  24. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #64
    Progress update: completely stuck on the Nergei story for some reason or rather disenchanted and going to go back to the drawing board with a brand new story starring a female protagonist waking up alone in nowhere and finding that she had lost her memories in exchange for able to communicate via telepathy with animals now where she couldn't before and she's wandering solo basically and having adventures to an unknown ending.

    2nd update: I know that my brain just loves complication, I just know it. Just writing out the plot skeleton for this new story nearly takes a whole page (I don't know I've included too many side-plots within a short story) whereas before it was short as. But then the upside is that I feel in the mood for writing it so I'm just gonna go for it.

  25. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #65
    Well load the outline on into the google doc folder. We can discuss it.

  26. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #66
    Right, I was thinking the same thing this morn. Will do that now.

  27. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #67
    I just uploaded both stories in.

  28. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #68
    Am back around.  I'm going to see what I can find as a starting point for an epub with the prior scribus files.

  29. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #69
    Welcome back, Val, Axle was asking the question of who's our in-house editor the other day and I'm confused. Do we even have one given that we're going for ultimate lighthandedness? Plus, I was thinking of adding some independent critics to the writer's group who would provide feedback (that's not same as editing per se but at least they would point out areas where the author needs to improve).

  30. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #70
    When you are ready to have somebody read it in an editor POV, we will find people. Even if it is just a few of us hacking away at it. After we give it our ole Citadel try, we can decide if we really need more of a professional review.

    So, once you have something you are wanting to get reviewed, give a shout and you can accept whomever you are willing to allow to give editing a shot.

  31. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #71
    Sounds like a good gameplan for editing as far as I'm concerned, Strolen. Currently, only Axle is ready for this treatment and I've already gone over it (or half of it which is what Axle posted up) once for typos and grammar (not a final proof-reading exercise like I did for the Strolenati ebook but a quick once-over).

  32. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #72
    The 'false start' has given me an excuse to procrastinate but I solemnly pledge to the Strolenati that I will get onto it tomorrow (I'm at work today).
    Update: actually managed to grab some time to write today while supervisor away on workshop. Not personally satisfied with the intro I had written but I kicked my inner critic away (or at least appeased her) by putting on a tape in my head that continuously says "Tis only the 1st draft!"

  33. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #73
    My story that I conceived and wrote up just for this thing is "finished" but too long and still very rough.  I am trying to edit down and still haven't given it the hard reread this ebook deserves.  If it ends up not working I'd be happy to write another one. Moon is still working on her story and was nice enough to give me some suggestions and edits on my early draft.

    But do we have any other contributors? 

  34. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #74
    I'll admit that I've been procrastinating on my story a bit. I just messed around with scenes restructuring last week having written a very lukewarm intro. Anyway, the positive outcome from that is that I feel that I'm more on top of the story now. And I feel that the plot is more tight with the restructured scenes whereas before it was spanning over too many events separated a long distance apart in time (which is awkward for a short story).

    Anyway, re Axle comment, can we have this discussion moved to its own sub-board like the Horror e-book? I was thinking of putting up a dedicated thread that calls more writers/independent critics/editors to this enterprise as well as multiple other dedicated threads on various aspects of this commercial ebook biz.

  35. Re: Amazon eBooks

    #75
    We are now pushing towards issue 5, and could still use more contributors.

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