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Ideas to make the Citadel self sufficent
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Ideas to make the Citadel self sufficent
#1Last night in Full chat a few of us admins had a brain storm session about how to make the site more self sufficient so Strolen no longer has to pay for the servers etc out of his own pocket, now I have admin level access one more (thanks again Chaos!) I figured posting it here for further discussion couldn't hurt. (Chat log Slightly edited for clarity)
(23:48:48) Silveressa: you know that reminds me of an idea actually
(23:49:05) Silveressa: the site should start up a blog of some sort
(23:49:35) Chaosmark: I was contemplating a dev blog for the generators.
(23:49:42) Silveressa: maybe feature a weekly sub from the past ala flashback friday, and some monthly themed topics where various strolenites post with their thoughts on gaming or what not
(23:49:49) Murometz: i think Scras tried it...and quickly stopped, because the blog lacked something important...an audience
(23:50:03) Chaosmark: And if I can find the time, I'd love to actually push out a generators update as a Christmas present.
(23:50:10) MoonHunter: rss feed?
(23:50:12) Silveressa: a link exchange with gnome stew might get us a banner ad on their site
(23:50:38) Silveressa: I'm passingly good friends with a few of the authors on there and can put in a good word.
(23:51:25) Silveressa: although I think we're straying into Strolen permission required territory?
(23:51:34) Chaosmark: A bit, yes.
(23:51:43) Chaosmark: Not much though.
(23:51:46) Silveressa: maybe a monthly ezine would be fun
(23:52:00) Chaosmark: If we do the groundwork for it, all he has to do is provide approval. I have code access to change whatever.
(23:52:20) Silveressa: even if it's just a collection of favorite articles from the site and any particularly useful gaming threads from the forums turned into articles.
(23:52:24) MoonHunter: The steady stream of effort is the hard part
(23:52:32) Chaosmark: Yes and no.
(23:52:34) MoonHunter: as much as I like the idea
(23:52:39) Chaosmark: It's a matter of making it a habit.
(23:52:43) Chaosmark: Much like the 10 in 10.
(23:52:53) MoonHunter: We didn't have the sustained effort to put together the PDF books
(23:53:06) MoonHunter: Yes. Habit works... but it seems very few of us have the habit
(23:53:08) Chaosmark: Most bloggers I know of regularly update and mention that they've always got more content to write than time.
(23:53:11) Murometz: (23:52:24) MoonHunter: The steady stream of effort is the hard part YES
(23:53:19) Chaosmark: The PDF books were more effort than a blog would be.
(23:53:29) Silveressa: some free pdf collections of articles up for dl on Drive thru rpg would generate some traffic and pbulicity
(23:53:33) Murometz: and nothing happened there either
(23:53:54) Murometz: free? I do believe Strolen is looking the opposite way
(23:54:03) Silveressa: hmm
(23:54:09) MoonHunter: He wanted a way to generate a little revenue
(23:54:18) Silveressa: it would have to be a cut above what's available here for free for people to pay for it I would imagine
(23:54:20) MoonHunter: to maintain the site
(23:54:29) Silveressa: making it pay what you want might do the trick?
(23:54:33) Murometz: bottom line is he's tired of paying for it, and wants to modernize this site. Execution of that is tough
(23:54:39) Chaosmark: Content licensing. We could only pull the CC-commercial subs.
(23:54:51) Murometz: a cut above how?
(23:54:56) Silveressa: I'm willing to donate any of my stuff
(23:55:15) MoonHunter: I think most of us are...
(23:55:17) Murometz: baloney...this site is worth a fucking monthly or yearly fee in my anything but humble opinion
(23:55:33) MoonHunter: as long as it isn't for profit and it just supports the site
(23:55:34) Silveressa: aye, absolutely
(23:56:25) Silveressa: perhaps offer some bonuses to plus (paid) users?
(23:56:33) Silveressa: like the ability to download any sub as a pdf
(23:56:46) MoonHunter: Don't we have a tip jar?
(23:56:55) Silveressa: I think so?
(23:57:10) Murometz: yep
(23:57:17) Murometz: almost never used
(23:57:31) Murometz: and by almost never i mean 99.99%
(23:57:34) MoonHunter: I remember it was there somewhere... but where the heck is it?
(23:57:58) Silveressa: perhaps a dice rolling program on the site for plus users as well and the generators for plus users?
(23:58:12) Murometz: as far as bonuses to "plus" users, see stroen.com joins forces with rpg citadel thread
(23:58:19) Silveressa: way down at the bottom of ht main page
(23:58:26) Silveressa: button labeled "donate"
(23:58:29) Murometz: front page..down
(23:58:39) Silveressa: super easy to over look, I totally forgot it was there tbh
(23:58:49) Chaosmark: I think the main problem we had in that thread and with that idea was the intense commercialization of the site it was going to end up pushing for.
(23:59:03) MoonHunter: Wow,,, It took me three searches
(23:59:24) Chaosmark: I'm not sure anyone really had a problem with the concept of bonus features for paying users.
(23:59:28) Silveressa: a few banner ads on the site might generate some revenue
(23:59:45) Silveressa: I for one wouldn't have an issue seeing drive thru rpg or other rpg related ads
(23:59:52) MoonHunter: Strolen used to have a passionate hatred of banner ads
(23:59:57) Silveressa: of course plus users can surf the site ad free
(00:00:19) Silveressa: assuming they're not random banner ads of crap and related to rpgs they wouldn't be so bad
(00:00:27) Silveressa: if they're the usual drivel banners... no
(00:00:35) Murometz: again...bottom line is: Strolen has EVERY right to charge something, because he pays for this site and keeps it free. Additionally, i see no reason why he cant also turn some sort of profit...but maybe that's the capitalist pig in me
(00:00:38) MoonHunter: roll into the rpg.net banners
(00:00:49) MoonHunter: Yes it is.
(00:01:18) MoonHunter: While the hyper dedicated of us would say yes, the rank and file and those of lesser interest would say no
(00:01:26) Silveressa: We also need a way to draw in new members
(00:01:39) Silveressa: our current user base of active members is around... 20? 50?
(00:02:14) Silveressa: also might be worth while copy/pasting this convo and tossing it in the admin area so other admins can read it and give input?
(00:02:28) Murometz: i "love" (sarcasm) when Strolent ever so subtley mentions..."ive paid for this thinbg for x years, and it would be nice if..."....and several people reply with things like this..."No way! If its not free, im outee!!"
(00:02:42) Murometz: they don't get it
(00:02:43) MoonHunter: We don't do a good job of recruiting new members.
(00:03:02) Murometz: ohhh lordee, lets not go down that never-ending path :)
(00:03:03) Silveressa: well I do appreciate the quality over quantity feel to the site
(00:03:32) MoonHunter: Sorry. It has been the big disaster button for me for... OMG how long have I been terrorizing all of you?
(00:04:10) Silveressa: but aye, maybe just offer $1 a month for plus membership and give us access to pdfable subs, generators, and a better dice roller?
(00:04:27) MoonHunter: The quality over quantity is something that should be in the FAQ... so we have fewer issues with some of those first posts from people who haven't quite read enough of the site
(00:04:37) Silveressa: it's cheap enough no one would seriously have issue with it for the bonuses, and it van be increased later on as we add more stuff
(00:04:59) Murometz: $5
(00:05:23) MoonHunter: Most would balk... as 60 bucks is a lot for some
(00:05:32) Silveressa: start with $1 then increase it over time as more features are added
(00:05:43) Murometz: then he can pay the whatever the cost it is per year for server at least
(00:06:29) Silveressa: perhaps offering up some kind of fund drive ala pbs stations?
(00:06:47) MoonHunter: Another suggestion... but he hates marketing...
(00:06:53) Silveressa: we can offer off some pdfs of sub collections, strolen dice, some strolen t shirts or something, raffle them off or what not
(00:06:54) Chaosmark: Ick. I loathe those.
(00:06:54) MoonHunter: Yes.. that is a good idea
(00:07:12) Chaosmark: Mostly because Wikipedia does it every year and it's annoying.
(00:07:22) Silveressa: we coudl do it better, and cooler
(00:07:52) Murometz: pbs style i like it! And maybe even do a youtube drive video with our less disgusting looking members (lol i slay myself)
(00:07:54) Silveressa: like a "donate $10 and you get a free custom sub written by the Strolenati about a idea of your choosing" or whatnot
(00:07:58) Chaosmark: Easier said than done. Come up with a plan, then we'll see. -
Re: Ideas to make the Citadel self sufficent
#2And further discussion in chat tonight:
(23:56:44) Murometz: it would be DAMN cool if pages made sounds!!!!
(23:57:02) MoonHunter: Imbedded sounds?
(23:57:09) MoonHunter: We could make it a pay feature
(23:57:17) MoonHunter: from a library of sounds on the site
(23:57:28) Silveressa: that was something suggested in the strolen idea thread
(23:57:52) Murometz: im in
(23:58:17) MoonHunter: Images and videos
(23:58:44) Silveressa: http://strolen.com/guild/index.php/topic,7102.msg85449.html#msg85449
(00:05:02) Silveressa: I love the idea of a sound gallery for paid users
(00:05:15) Chaosmark: From a usability standpoint, having pages that make sounds is a horrible idea.
(00:05:20) Silveressa: http://adventureaweek.com/ has that kind of thing
(00:05:22) Chaosmark: Sound gallery, great. Awesome. Wonderful idea.
(00:05:29) Chaosmark: Pages making sounds? Bad.
(00:05:30) Silveressa: it's a gallery
(00:05:45) Silveressa: organized by types like ambient, nature, town/city, combat etc.
(00:05:47) MoonHunter: Activate by button usually
(00:05:53) Silveressa: with sound slips form 30 secs to 10 mins or so
(00:06:13) Silveressa: so GM's can hit play and add ambiance easily to their games, or DL the audio clip for use with an mp3 or whatever
(00:06:19) MoonHunter: Strolen as a gamer's e-radio?
(00:06:24) Murometz: well there are already websites with all that...sound no?
(00:06:33) Murometz: i used it in AYNIK :)
(00:06:37) Silveressa: yes but http://adventureaweek.com/ charges $10 a month for access
(00:06:43) Murometz: grenades, helos, rain, bombs, etc
(00:07:02) Murometz: oh i see
(00:07:37) Murometz: never let it be said i skimp on gm audio, i think i paid a site for 4 grenade sounds, 1 bomb, and 1 chopper just for rp :P
(00:07:54) Silveressa: aye having it available to paid users would be awesome
(00:08:16) Silveressa: I've used audio a lot in many of my games
(00:08:20) Chaosmark: Hm...
(00:08:35) Chaosmark: Dammit, no. No more coding stuff. Lalalalalaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
(00:08:40) Chaosmark: Tuning out the conversation.
(00:08:41) Silveressa: some ambient music would be worthwhile to add to that sound gallery too
(00:08:49) Murometz: make the generators work :P
(00:08:54) Silveressa: I have some home made compositions I'd be happy to donate
(00:10:54) Longspeak: disparition.bandcamp.com
(00:12:41) Murometz: i use this http://soundbible.com/1467-Grenade-Explosion.html
(00:14:03) Silveressa: 19 files I can donate of various ambient musics -
Re: Ideas to make the Citadel self sufficent
#3Johnn has worked something out that may not alienate folks.
http://www.patreon.com/johnnfour
Had that patreon site bookmarked for a long time, I am just too bashful to ask for money. But done in a tasteful way, might work out. I do get some recurring payments right now from a couple folks, so there are active donations. I just don't advertise or thank them very well. :( -
Re: Ideas to make the Citadel self sufficent
#4I think a Patreon page would be rather good for the site. It's a bit easier to send money regularly if it just happens automatically. Most importantly (in my mind), it doesn't feel sleazy at all. Patreon is specifically intended for gathering regular donations from people who derive value from someone or something, and plenty of other big-name content-generating sites (like Schlock Mercenary) have one.
I'm not sure if we should offer any specific benefits to Patreon donors or not, but the initial idea seems solid to me. -
Re: Ideas to make the Citadel self sufficent
#5Aye patreon sounds like it would work well, better than a donation button discreetly hidden at the bottom of the front page anyway ;)
Add in a custom "donor" title for forum usage and maybe a few minor features like the save a sub as a .pdf and it would help encourage more people to donate.
In all honesty, I feel that unless we offer something to the masses I'm not sure very many people beyond us admins to sign up for the patreon option since our active user base is around a couple dozen at most currently.
The content on demand idea would be a nice way to launch the Patreon option, and make even our casual once a week/month visitors take notice and consider signing up.
To begin with we could offer the on demand content as open for anyone to fulfill with us admins giving the final yay/nay vote on the offered sub by a member is up to snuff for the requested content. (with the content writer getting a xp reward for their effort and maybe the sub counting as 2 submissions or something towards level gain?)
We could also take it a step farther with a Patreon donor forum area, where people can request feedback /advice on a game they're running/char their playing and get personal advice from other Patreons and any admin volunteers who will take the time to ensure their thread gets a thoughtful response.
Once we have them signed into a automatic payment there's a good chance they'll leave it in place since it's out of sight/mind, especially if it provides a distinctive service they can't easily get anywhere else.
Perhaps the $2 patreon level gives them the patreon forum/advice access and once on demand content request per month? With a $5 option giving 3 on demand requests per month? Not sure of the details, but it's something no other site I know of offers, which would give it both a novelty appeal, and a practical benefit that makes them feel like they are "getting their money's worth," and perhaps attract new members as well, something a basic patreon option wouldn't.
That's my 2 cents on it anyway. 8)