[horror] Content

#1

So, valadaar has already started collecting some best-of-Strolen horror submissions in a favorites list here:

http://strolen.com/favorites/view/24

However, that only goes so far. We're going to need some new content specifically for the eBook (especially since some of the authors in that list might not want their work published). Since the eBook is genre-oriented (horror), we're also going to want to have a solid distribution of submission types: plots, items, NPCs, locations, creatures (read: monsters).

Thus, I think we should decide how many of each we think would be good for the eBook (this will also determine the length). My proposal as follows (entirely open to suggestion):

5 plots -- I'm thinking full-fledged plots that a GM can use for a session, with a minimum of effort to incorporate it into the campaign as a whole. This will probably leave a few decent options out in the cold, but that allows the plots to be instantly usable (often, our plot submissions are a bit hard for others to use without significant amounts of work).
10 NPCs -- Perhaps one of these slots can be filled with a `30 minor horror NPCs` to fill the background with. The rest should probably be solid NPCs with a decently fleshed out background, motivations, and some plot hooks.
5-10 Locations -- I leave this one as a range, since we'll want some locations that are deeply fleshed out (closer to the 5), but I can also see that there might be a handful of shorter locations (closer to the 10). Thoughts from more experienced heads?
10 Creatures -- Some simple ones would probably be okay, but I'm thinking the minimum should be something at least as fleshed out as The Mogrolyth. We're looking for some good monsters here; the NPCs might have some villains and some helpers, but for a horror game, we want glistening fangs and blood-dripping claws.
10 Items -- Perhaps one slot would be `30 Pieces of Horror Equipment`, to handle the standard flashlight/road flare/chainsaw stuff players should be stocking up on. The rest should mostly be spooky plot-hook items, with a few leading right back to the plots we've built for the eBook. Regardless of plot-hook status, all of them should be spooky and add something extra to any scenario they're included in.
? Plot Hooks -- This is a bit more fluid; it doesn't really match with any categories we have, and is really just more a list of ways GMs can snag their players and bring them into one of the plots we've already listed. Probably some overlap with the Items list.

Perhaps also we could come up with a sample scenario that weaves together a number of the included submissions?

Re: [horror] Content

#2

For some thematic inspiration, I point you to the TVTropes page for Horror. There's also the SCP Foundation.

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#3

I like it. Great starting ideas to put some goals on the wall!

I definitely agree ( you said it with the plots ) that each article/submission needs to be able to stand on its own. My vision for it is to open the book to a random page and be able to pull that article out and slap it into my campaign. Whether it be NPC, location, creature...whatever.

If we want to do a master plot at the end that ties in a bunch of things, then that is a sweet bonus that I would love to see!

Also like the idea of having a 30s with each section as well. A stack of quick things to browse through to get the creative juices flowing.

Awesome!

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#4

"If we want to do a master plot at the end that ties in a bunch of things, then that is a sweet bonus that I would love to see! "

I think we should not have any 'standalone' plots at all, but have them built largely from the other elements in the ebook. This allows the plots to be a little more in depth and less generic, but since the materials are self-contained in the publication, still cohesive.

To that end, once we have the building blocks settled - everything else - we put out a quest for plots containing a number of the submissions (5-6+).

As for other the other subs, synergy within the subs should be one of the criteria selected for, to better enable the plots being crafted.

So, how are we going to manage the logistics of this? Google docs?

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#5

I think we should not have any 'standalone' plots at all, but have them built largely from the other elements in the ebook. This allows the plots to be a little more in depth and less generic, but since the materials are self-contained in the publication, still cohesive.

That was pretty much what I was aiming for. I wasn't suggesting plots that were stand-alone of the rest of the eBook, merely ones that would be independent of anything outside of it.

To that end, once we have the building blocks settled - everything else - we put out a quest for plots containing a number of the submissions (5-6+).

That might be good, but I'm not sure we should only choose plots from said quest.

So, how are we going to manage the logistics of this? Google docs?

I haven't ever collaborated through Google Docs before. Does it have a version system built in? Or would we be better served by some form of wiki?

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#6

My reasoning is that in order to do a plot without becoming overly generic it would be good to have details to draw upon that are already in the publication.

Plots that didn't draw upon the resources already contained in the publication might need too much added text to support, unless they were brilliantly written to not need them.

A thought only - my understanding is that word-count is not going to be a critical factor here.

Google docs is only a suggestion. What are we planning on using for final layout and the like?

Re: [horror] Content

#7

Philosophically speaking.

I was thinking more that the ebook is a direct representation of the site. Bite size pieces of content.

As a general rule, I personally hate modules which is basically what it seems you are thinking, interconnected submissions. This is my personal taste. The only thing I ever used modules for was to take bits and pieces out of them and use them with what I had in place already, or even built my own stuff around things I got from them. Modules always had the horrible feeling of cookie cutter to me when the DM would read the next description or keep referencing the book to make sure we were on track. I come from a pretty strong bias against it in any form.

So, when you say you want to make ebook content all interconnected, I basically cringe.

My whole point is contrary to the direction you are going. I absolutely want everything to be separate and unique and not dependent on anything else in the ebook. I want a person to go to any page and grab that content without even having to think about anything else or having worry about some kind of dependencies that might be there. Just like the Citadel, I like this...not this or this. But if I don't like this or this and they are co-dependent, you just caused me, the user, more work to try and pull it out. Many submissions are going to already have some internal requirements and to add more external ones on top of that, I just think it is too much. That is the way the Citadel is and that was the vision I had for the ebook. I admit I might be overreacting too and you will be able to justify some things, but my basic vision won't change even if I concede to how it isn't as bad as I am making it out to be.

If you aren't thinking that deep then I apologize, but it sounds like it.

Now, with the hook portion ( or create another section of each submission called "campaign-mode" or something ) you can always put together some things and maybe there is a way to incorporate some/all the submissions into something greater but I wanted that to be extra and not required by any stretch.

Few, if any, of the site submissions currently depend on each other so I also see that if we were talking module-style, that would require a ton more work and text trying to tie stuff together vs a simple polish of what is currently written. Unless, as you mentioned, we start the content from scratch.

Let me know more on your thoughts though but I don't think I am going to bend too far on the bite-size pieces thing but we can probably come up with something that can work for both thoughts. After all, if you both are steering that direction, I can't deny that there is a need for something like that.

--ebook format. Is in work. Probably have some demos of it this week.
--not worried about ebook size. Worried about our satisfaction with it. :) Goals above are an awesome start but we will go where it takes us with the content.
--collaboration. Once we figure out the format and what we want, google docs would be best I think. Yes, it has a revision history as well.

Re: [horror] Content

#8

@valadaar: I believe Strolen said he found a copy of Adobe Publisher somewhere, so I think he was intending on doing some form of PDF, but that isn't required. PDF Creator has always functioned perfectly fine for me, so if nothing else we can just do a high-res .odf or .doc and then convert it into a PDF that way. I haven't ever put a work out for formal publishing before, so I'm not sure if that would pose any kind of problem or not. If it's just an eBook though, I'm not sure it needs to be worried about too heavily so long as it's neatly organized.

@Strolen: I wasn't ever intending for the eBook to be a classic module. However, there's nothing wrong with having some bits of it be interconnected. In actuality, that would probably help in usability; a huge swarm of unrelated submissions will probably be overwhelming to readers, but if some of them are connected to each other, at least in part or as optional sidebar notes, it would offer some extra value beyond just the submission content. No plot, monster or item is truly independent, and showing some suggestions for how to weave them together would be probably be helpful to readers.

My preferred solution would be for the submissions to be stand-alone, much like site submissions are, and then have post-production sidebar notes that offer suggestions for tying the various submissions together. "Use this monster with this item as the antagonist of this plot."

Re: [horror] Content

#9

Post production sidebar would be a great solution in my mind. Easily differentiated for those that want to combine the submisisons but not in the way for those that don't need it. I think the process will come together once we start doing it.

Step 1. The goals listed above reformatted to the template. See what we have on tap through Valadaar's list and other things we can grab.

Designing the ebook in Adobe's InDesign and will export to pdf.

I think I mentioned it before but wasn't very explicit. I have hired a design company to do the logo and ebook. That was my Christmas present to me. http://www.nascentstudio.com/ So all the logo options and such has been a collaboration with Nascent. We are done with the logo phase and now moving on to the ebook.

Once I get the ebook done and we are ecstatic about it, I will get a quote for web design. Not sure I will be able to afford that though. ;) We shall see. He was recommended by Johnn at RPT and he has been fantastic, I think you will agree. So design is coming and it will be good, we just need to concentrate on the content.

Again, check out the ebook linked here: http://strolen.com/guild/index.php/topic,5262.msg68268.html#msg68268

I find it not at all confusing with, what it boils down to, a list of plots. After all, that is what we do and if during the intro we explain what the ebook is and isn't, then they will go into the book expecting whatever we want them to. It shouldn't be at all confusing.

I see us having an intro and put a choice of Moon's and other's valuable "How to DM" type articles to kick it off, all focused on describing how to effectively use the content we are offering along with explaining how we have it set up. You can see how they did their intros and build up to the main content, we will have something similar.

We will see how it progresses and work though the issues. Content first, then we can decide how to use it.

Will do a bit in google docs today and get a new file up to share with some basic outlines and formatting to get started. Today or tomorrow, might be going on a short trip today.

Re: [horror] Content

#10

Am perfectly fine with the direction of more standalone bits - CM's idea of sidebars on possibilities on how to link them is great idea.

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#11

Wasn't sure where to update so figured this was as good a place as any. I downloaded the rest of valadaar's list to a local document. I will be on a short vacation back to the states and will work on this during the flight etc. Just wanted to let you know I have it all, including that huge undead thread. Up to about 150 pages unedited.

So if you add to it, add something not on that list. :)

Will be online off and on so PM me or post if you want.

Laters!!

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#12

Didn't get near as much done as I hoped but I plugged along a bit.

Question: When you create a creature, say a Deader as a pseudo-race thing. Would you capitalize "Deader" from then on out or is it like human or dwarf and just be deader?

Also, it was getting long and a bit rough to work with so I broke it down into sections and started working it that way.

Here is the shared folder: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-Duji1ID-E3YTBiMzBkYWEtOTk4Ny00MjE3LTg4NDQtNDM5MzBmY2QwMTFj

I made it so you have to login, that way the tracking of changes is easier to keep track of. For those with a google account it is seamless, those without you will have to make one.

I will be working on it for the next few hours.

I am thinking of the next quest. Once the text from the RAW file are moved into one of the split up books we can compile what we need and make a forum quest with links to each of the submissions where we need hooks, secrets, twists etc. and see if we can get a lot of it fleshed out with the assistance of the Citadel.

Re: [horror] Content

#13

Question: When you create a creature, say a Deader as a pseudo-race thing. Would you capitalize "Deader" from then on out or is it like human or dwarf and just be deader?

In general, I think it's dependent on the name in question. Everyone recognizes human and dwarf as racial names, with context to help. If the name is obviously a race-name (not overlapping with commonly-used words), it can be lowercase. Otherwise, capitalize it for clarity.

For the eBook specifically, I think it might help to be uniform about it, and make all racial names CamelCase, just to ensure nobody gets confused. There's nothing inherently wrong with capitalizing a racial name.

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#14

How do I add a new document to the collection?

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#15

I am not sure honestly. Easy enough for me because it just happens when it is created and named. But not sure if that is because I am the original owner of it....Did you try creating a new document (or uploading one) while inside the folder?

Re: [horror] Content

#16

Yes. It only applies it to me, it doesn't add it to the folder. Perhaps I can give you a link and you can download/upload it to the folder?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lKiYMEHgC5yELIJfrv18sjTkqXKY7IEovrIPNfhODcI/edit

Re: [horror] Content

#17

See if it is there now.

Re: [horror] Content

#18

That it is.

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#19

I noticed we seem a bit short of our content goal , so I went digging for some more recent horror subs. Links away!

Tunguska Dreaming by ephemeralstability (Plot - Lovecratian Horror) http://strolen.com/viewing/Tunguska_Dreaming

The Tree of Bone by EchoMirage (Lifeform - Necromantic Tree) http://strolen.com/viewing/The_Tree_of_Bone

Horng Poh-Buh by Pieh (Creature - Pseudo-Oriental Spirit) http://strolen.com/viewing/Horng_Poh-Buh_The_Bloodiest_Cloth

Harvester of Eyes by Pieh (Plot, though listed as NPC - Eye-Stealing Cultists) http://strolen.com/viewing/Harvester_of_Eyes

Mastere, the Necromancer Queen by Scrasamax (NPC, and because we need a necro) http://strolen.com/viewing/Mastere_the_Necromancer_Queen

Just to add a chunk when you need to find some. Hope they help.

Re: [horror] Content

#20

Hurrah!!

I do have 164 pages of submissions currently but they are unedited/unreviewed but you found some awesome additions that will join them!!

I have a vision for it, just got back from vacation, am sick as a dog and have some things I want to fix on the website before I move full bore into the ebook again. But I keep making notes about it and I have established the realistic goal of October for the Horror volume to come out which makes the most sense of anything. First one is the hardest!

Re: [horror] Content

#21

I was going to ask about a specific 30 for "minor horror NPCs" but I realized an easier way. What 30's do we have along the lines of cultists, necromancers, minions, brigands, swords for hire, commoners, et cetera? Use those and pull the best npcs from them.

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#22

Not sure whether we are still short of content for this particular eBook (I tried to access the Google doc but it said sth abt error in loading whenever I tried to access that doc with everything on it and I already logged into my Google account so I don't know what's going on) but just though I would post what I know are relevant subs just in case we're still short:
1. Bloody Smile (NPC sub by Captain Penguin)
2. The Becoming (NPC sub by Scras although it actually reads like a short story so might be major work to mould it into some kind of template with headings like I know currently subs are being made into, also it's not technically horror but rather sth creepy that makes you get goose-bumps)
3. actually I couldn't even find this sub I had in mind but thought I would describe it to as much detail as I want to so the long-timers might be able to find it.
It's basically a sub abt this guy who has an obsession with teeth and he goes and kidnaps ppl who doesn't take care of their teeth and tortures them. I'm pretty sure it's written by one of the long-timers around the Citadel and I'm quite definite that it's not MH, Cheka or Strolen himself and possibly not MJS but could be any one of the others.

Re: [horror] Content

#23

Yes indeedy! #1 and #3 are in there already. #3 being http://strolen.com/viewing/Ullhyr_TLar-Yin

In fact, #1 and #3 can headline a whole new ebook, the Dental-Terror ebook!

Re: [horror] Content

#24

Yep, #1 was what I found by searching the words tooth and teeth. Actually, from this search, I found out that there're actually heaps of subs with some kind of teeth theme (like 40 pages or sth!)