Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

1. Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #1

   And so it begins.
   
   
   Open target. I will post all the changes/updates I get and will depend on you for your honest and open input. I took some stuff Kate gave me and am working with a designer Johnn put min touch with. I am paying for it and we are on a timeline (that is somewhat loose but can't stall for weeks on end like I usually do) so timely opinions are needed.
   
   
   This is logo draft 1....and I already like it.
   
   
   I think I am more a stronger citadel liker. Harder corners and more rougher vs. the mid eastern style, but crap, it looks pretty good and scales down pretty good too.
   
   
   What do you think?

2. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #2

   Very nice, although it does seem to empathize D&D/fantasy rpgs more then the "everything in the verse, all settings and genres found here" compilation of stuff we currently have.  But that; just my .02 and initial impression, for what it's worth.

3. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #3

   @Silveressa: I minorly agree, though my opinion is that the traditional Sword & Sorcery is so engrained in our collective psyche that nothing else would get the concept of 'RPG' across in as efficient a fashion.
   
   @Strolen: I like it. It does scale down especially well. However, my one complaint is the grunge. It doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the clean lines. If we're planning on using that in full-size and not just as a small corner logo, I think the grunge needs to go.

4. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #4

   Logo draft 1 = Hell yeah!

5. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #5

   Maybe it's just my poor eyesight, but I have a hard time recognizing it for what it is when scaled down. I get "Ok, there are some wings, and is that a dragon head? Oh, it's a dragon" but I can't make out the break between the pictured Citadel and the looming dragon.
   
   It looks nice when big, but, as CM points out, the grunge should go.
   
   For a 1st draft, I think it's a good start.

6. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #6

   Suggestions:
   
   Stronger kerning between T and A in 'CITADEL'
   Larger 'READ POST PLAY', making use of the whitespace
   Longer leading between "Strolen's" and "Citadel" (Leading == Interline Spacing)
   Better distinction between foreground and background on logo. Suggest straight castle crenelation below dragon instead of citadel silhouette
   Larger dragon to be able to distinguish logo at greater distance.
   

7. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #7

   Like the direction or try something new?
   
   Love you comments dark and they are right on. I hate nitpicking the brainstorming but lets go for high concept branding type thoughts and how it represents us vs. the small details that can be fixed up if we have a logo we like. Does that make sense?
   
   I am passing the main suggestions along as I get them! I did ask for the old scribe bent over a parchment and ink well type comments so the grunge is coming from my request to a point.
   
   Here is the designer's comments.
   
   

   I'm going to try a few little tweaks to the logo to see if I can get it polished up right - the stroke on the citadel was a bit too narrow, so I'll change that a bit, and I've already cleaned up the grunge look on the font a LITTLE bit, but not much.  The "messy" look had more to do with the overlapping line-height than anything, and I was also planning on giving the logo itself a bit of splash with the grunge.  I almost want it to look like an over-inked old-school printing press just slammed the logo onto the canvas.
   
   I'll also make sure that the logo can be resized to 72px (1 inch) without becoming illegible.  Ideally with this particular logo design you would print it at larger sizes with parts of the logo bleeding from the page.  You could even use it as a watermark this way to subtly reinforce your brand on any materials you produce.  I'll be sure to consider as many possibilities as I can before I deliver you the final product.  I'm glad you like the concept, though.

8. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #8

   Ah, Sorry, I tend to do that! I think my job is rubbing off on me... Forest and trees, etc... I never even questioned whether this was the right direction at all.
   
   Thanks for calling me up on it :wink:!
   
   I actually really like the direction. It's clear, distinctive and has great branding potential. I think it could benefit from simplification, as the level of detailing is somewhat high for a logo, but then I have a minimalistic disposition. (Like the logo should be suitable for Stencil Graffiti.)
   
   Otherwise, I think that the motif of the citadel and the dragon work well. The mid-eastern style citadel works pretty well, but having a look at an alternative with a European-style keep might be interesting.
   
   I prefer the second version, with the implied circle and lowered citadel. I have the feeling something could be tried with the wing edges and the circle itself, so the wings merge with the circle.
   
   I like the messiness of the typeface! What I'd like to see though, is for each letter to be individually styled. In large format, the two Es look much too similar to work well.
   
   Otherwise, I like it a lot, and would be more than willing to grab a bunch of stickers to plaster those logo on my stuff!
   
   

9. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

   #9

   The direction is great. If we could sell Strolen himself off as a Dragon instead of a the Llama he strives to be, we could have a perfect visual representative of "Strolen's Citadel" in the works.
   
   I really think losing the cliffs was a good idea, the straight edges leading up to what looked like it should have been a wide skyline looked, in hindsight, awkward. I would also like to see some touching up under the leftmost wing crook, some (Seemingly, to my eye) inconsistently placed/created horizontal marks. The text is getting there. I like the old printing keys effect, but the grunge is uniform between the two "E"s and hurts the charm.
   
   It also reminds me of a certain TSR logo, which features a familiarly placed/proportioned dragon logo. Anyone see the similarities? Is this a problem or a boon? I figure it's pretty unavoidable when putting a dragon into that kind of shape/space, but I'm not sure how newcomers would interpret it.
   
   I would also like to see a version featuring a standard European keep style, as we have had in the past. Not sure how the nostalgia goggles are effecting my judgment on this one.
   
   It didn't start out bad, but it is certainly improving.

10. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #10

    Here is another direction.
    
    

    Nah, no problem at all, I told you I would get some more thumbs for you -  here's another quick mockup using some dragon tribal flash (will change to something original and copyright-free if you decide to proceed with this design).
    
    This was more of a Lion's Gate approach (sort of), but it reproduces well at smaller sizes, and still gives the "You're in a long hallway approaching a massive dungeon door" feel.Font selection can change drastically, of course, but I'll be using the same text selection/layout until we move on to the next round of revisions. (think of it as placeholder text)
    
    Any thoughts or feedback welcome.  Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

11. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #11

    Interesting.
    
    I think that this one would be much more impactful if you had one door black, the other White, and the dragon's head was inverted black/White. I'd also like to see what it would look like with an actual dragon's head, rather than the tribal art.

12. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #12

    Next set.

13. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #13

    OK. You are going to have to pick two styles to go to round two. It can be any combination or any opinions on changing any of them. Just have to start narrowing it down from this.
    
    I think there are some awesome choices and I am super happy. (And even more happy because after we choose this we move on to the ebook design)
    
    No, unfortunately I can't put this up in the header or anything right now (I am in Germany currently) but understand that a)it will be used on the ebook design and b) the main citadel is almost guaranteed a change to come in line with the new logo and probably with the ebook style. (you know I love to redesign but since this is going so well I am pretty sure I will be contracting him to give me a professional design on the site. Money well spent!)
    
    So look at it on its own merit, how it represents the citadel, how identifiable it will be, how it resizes to be used in our future prints etc. Comments on the text as well, knowing that it is a style he is going with but can customize it all we want.
    
    This will hopefully be the last redesign for a VERY VERY long time. I love coding the site but I am sick of not having something I really like. I think that will be fixed through this process, finally!
    
    I think I will be happy with any of these but my favorite is the the first one after the fix (logo2) and I am really drawn to logo4b. I think those would be my two choices. I like the door but it doesn't pull me like the others. No reasoning to it, just gut. Torn between them though.
    
    What say you?

14. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #14

    Another!

15. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #15

    One more

16. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #16

    Glad to hear that the designs are receiving a good reception.  From a design standpoint, I would recommend going with the dragons on the door.  As you said, you would be able to use the design in various ways, including doors without the dragons, and dragons without the doors.  Other than the font selection, I don't believe there's much that could/should be changed about the design.
    
    The "emblem" with the dragon and citadel is decent from a design standpoint (still looks more like tattoo art), but it doesn't resize well, even if the wings were beefed up a bit, the citadel would lose a bit of definition at smaller sizes.
    
    On the other hand, I believe that the emblem would make some great cover-art for the ebooks (think dark blue cloth cover with the emblem embossed on the front - wizard's spellbook, anybody?).  This way you would be able to use both designs to great effect.

    
    
    So I hereby say that the dragon doors wins the contest. The other one will most likely be used in the ebook design! Win Win I think.
    
    So, the font. I will request a more hand drawn style and then the current style made more unique and see how that goes. I will want a font that has a useable alphabet so I can duplicate it throughout the site and use it in the ebook. But the title should have everything unique on it like was mentioned, I agree.

17. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #17

    Color selection is definitely part of the next phase, while grey does make for a clean design, it can be boring and difficult to fit into existing themes.  I think we could do a light parchment color for the "background" or light grey parts of the existing doors, then a darker red "metallic" pattern for the dragons and circle, leaving the outline on the doors black.  I'll play around with a few combinations and send you something to look at later today.
    
    I'll go ahead and get the font styles changed, as well.  We'll find something that looks great for you.
    
    Let me know if you have any additional thoughts, I'll be at the computer working most of the day.

    
    
    If you have any thoughts, let me know. Otherwise I will post the next iteration when it comes.

18. Re: Logo and Ebook Design opinions needed

    #18

    Everything is fair game now. Font, Color, Style etc...
    

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