Request: More freetexts

1. Request: More freetexts

   #1

   That's a question: what about more freetext entries for each submission?
   
   While it's an old idea abandoned once, I revived it after reviewing several setting-specific submissions... one was a fungus or something. The sub clearly deserved to be marked as belonging to the setting, AND as a fungus, too. There's more cases like that, and we could revive the whole freetext area - categorise stuff neatly, so all those knights, demons, undead, spell-books and whatnot would find their place. (Yay! More linkage!)
   
   
   Code-wise, the freetexts would have to be separated by something (a pipe is classic, but no comma was used yet in a freetext, so that may be the one). An upper limit of three per sub should suffice for all purposes.
   
   
   So, is it worth it? Or just another to burn on the pyre?

2. Re: More freetexts

   #2

   Please please please
   
   Can we have more free-texts?
   
   

3. Re: More freetexts

   #3

   Tagging stuff seems to be the "new thing" along with AJAX which I very much like so....
   
   If somebody that has an idea on how they want the tags to work beyond what they are doing now, then I would be very happy for the input. Anybody have experience on blogs or youtube or whatever on how those tags are able to tie things together or is it simply more tags and a list like more of what we have now?
   
   I don't see a huge reason why not to have extra tags.

4. Re: More freetexts

   #4

   I've seen some tagging site that allowed all users to tag songs in any way... but I guess that would be too messy for our site, adding useless overhead as well.
   
   Let's have a few more tags first, and then we'll see what happens.

5. Re: More freetexts

   #5

   I just looked at how I worked the freetext and have it in a single field in the actual submission.
   
   To make multiple freetext links I would have to add another table to track all of the freetext seperately so multiple freetext words can be associated with a single submission. Will have to redesign how it all works basically as I can store the 3+ freetexts as I have it now, they just won't be useable until I put together an entire new set of functions to handle them.
   
   Guess this is one thing I didn't plan for to make it easy to expand. :(
   
   This is one that would take me a full night....if I can ever get one. :) So give me a bit of time and if you have more thoughts on how else to use them I am all ears.
   
   -Any number of freetext options separated by a comma
   -They will pretty much be handled how they are on the site now
   --Main page with a list of all the freetext with more than one submission using that freetext word
   --Each submission will have the list of freetext it is associated with linking to a list of submissions with that clicked freetext
   
   Expands the option to search for multiple freetext combinations too. Will have to figure out how to make that easy to use on the site. If you have "barbarian, orc, noble" it would be nice to find other submission with 1, 2, or 3 of those same freetexts.

6. Re: More freetexts

   #6

   Free-text here has always been about extending and cross linking... just like tags. I like the idea of multiple free-texts and tags. I get excited about it.  I want to just go on and one about it. Then two things come up:
   
   First, I think of the following tags: Fantasy. Elf. Dragon. They are going to happen. Even if we don't initially put them in, some new member will put them in... and if we are not careful there will be a ton of them used before we stop it.  Now I want you to think about how useless these tags will become.
   
   Second: Tags really need to be monitored and edited to be useful. Orphan tags are pointless and useless. People need to use tags that are common or use the common format to be useful. So Sylan Elf.  And who is going to do that monitoring? 
   
   Look around at yourselves admins.  Just like you are supposed to be policing categories of the submissions, you will have to edit those tags to be helpful and usefl.  What is that you are saying? You don't police the categories? so you aren't going to police the tags?
   
   Thus my points are made.

7. Re: More freetexts

   #7

   Best place to keep this link for now. :)
   
   http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2005/04/tags-database-schemas.html
   http://tagschema.com/blogs/tagschema/
   http://blogoforum.com/tag/blogoforum+tagging
   
   
   I think we just run with it and deal with the few negative side-effects from it. Please go on and on about it because we are going for it. :)

8. Re: Request: More freetexts

   #8

   Tagclouds seem to be a big thing.
   
   http://www.librarything.com/tagcloud.php
   
   Alphabetical listing of all tags with those tags with more submissions linking to them being placed in bigger text.
   
   I actually like this idea instead of the boring list with numbers that I have now. Ya think?
   
   another link for me: http://www.petefreitag.com/item/396.cfm

9. Re: Request: More freetexts

   #9

   I released all the freetext, even the singles. See the freetext page. I also had fund and went ahead and made it a tagcloud.
   
   

10. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #10

    I like that, a lot.

11. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #11

    The standard list should be offered too, for the weaker minds and more systematic look, but... darn, is it cool!
    
    Also it is obvious that some should be cleared from the list.
    
    
    *nods* I knew why I liked wordclouds. Let's have more freetexts!

12. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #12

    Why don't we use the one's that can be reused more before we go off and create another 20 million?

13. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #13

    That was the plan, actually.

14. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #14

    I keep finding myself drawn to that page now.
    
    I have been combining similiar freetext together to reduce redundancy a bit and make it a little more useful.
    
    I am also debating to an unnormalized database thing and just add two more detail rows instead of having them all together or creating a separate database. Still pondering the mechanics on adding more freetext to each sub.
    
    

15. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #15

    Been tossing around the idea of putting a text cloud in the main pages of each of the sections. The cloud would only consist of those freetexts of that type. So you go to the lifeforms main page and at the top would be a small could of lifeform freetext.
    
    Ya think?

16. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #16

    On the top, or on the bottom of the pages? Unless it would be really small, it shouldn't be at the top. Size matters in this case strongly, as it could kill what was before a reasonably-looking summary page. I don't think the amount of freetexts in most categories would be radically smaller than the total amount of them, so there you go.
    
    My condition would be: not until the freetexts are used more intensively.

17. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #17

    Fads.  I though we were iconoclastic enough to avoid fads.
    
    Well now that you have gone and done it... you need to allow nearly unlimited free-text tags for each submission. Okqay, you can limit it to 100 characters (or 80 or 30), but each item will need more free-text. 
    
    If you are going to make tags, you need to go all the way. So we can insert the tags for each of the types, each submission category, and additional free-text.  That way, you can click artic, and get all the locations and animals for each... and any snow/ cold bearing weapon.
    
    And we need to block a couple of words... right off the bat.  You know exactly what I mean.

18. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #18

    Once we get more freetext, I sort of like how they did the small tag cloud here.
    
    http://www.phpdeveloper.org/news/5465
    
    Might use the freetext from the current submission and make a mini tagcloud out of it...or just put how many others are linked to that tag maybe.
    
    Saw it and thought I would mention it.

19. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #19

    Tag cloud at the top or bottom of most pages? :down:
    Tag cloud in the freetext? :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:
    There could be more uses for them, but do you remember the early days of the web? Flaming gifs were cool, but in retrospect some people MIGHT have overdone them.
    
    I say: Fancy stuff is fancy, but needs to keep a low profile, lest cool becomes tiresome.
    
    Just my two cents.

20. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #20

    Soooo...
    
    - 3 (three) freetexts per sub at most
    
    - a tag-cloud on the freetext page, with a common, dry, sequential list linked to it
    
    - eventually clear up the weirder ones, and tag old stuff with what seems to fit
    
    - later on, skip those freetexts in the cloud that are linked to only one submission - should make it more compact, too (but show them in the list still)
    
    
    Did I miss anything? Just wanted to bring this to the top before XP counters (yawn) start being implemented.

21. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #21

    I went through this one yesterday and rereviewed some of the how's about it.
    
    I haven't to decide how to implement it yet, but yes, the priority is way before the XP stuff.

22. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #22

    With three freetexts per sub... Could I write Coldforged Coldforged Coldforged and thus get triple rating for my subs?
    (Yes, I am warning of a possible abuse... Other people see possibilities for use, I see only possibilities for abuse)

23. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #23

    I could check for duplicates, but they will be plain as day on the submission so you will immediately reveal your desire to try and cheat.
    
    I am torn.
    
    1) Add two more fields and call it good.
    2) Parse them all out of the same field
    3) Normalize them and put them in their own table.
    
    I am going to end up doing 3, just suffering the decision since I have to rewrite a lot to make it work.

24. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #24

    http://www.prism-perfect.net/archive/php-tag-cloud-tutorial/
    
    More elegant than my solution. Since I am going normalized this can be plug n play.
    
    (starting on this today by the way)

25. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #25

    Database created......
    Database filled with current freetext.....
    
    Function building in work:
    

26. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #26

    Going to start with unlimited amount of freetext and if that gets out of hand we will limit it.

27. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #27

    The ability to submit and edit a submission with new freetext works.
    
    comman delineated

28. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #28

    ((I am doing these annoying updates to keep me going on it so I finish it))

29. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #29

    Showing up on the main pages now with links that work.

30. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #30

    Freetext should now work everywhere it is used.
    
    Still need some advancement for connecting multiple freetexts, but for now it is the same with the ability to put in multiple freetext.
    
    DONE

31. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #31

    MoonHunter had this pretty idea the other day, so let's give it a try, after a little shake-up of the categories:
    
    Let a category count also as a freetext.
    
    
    So if I look for instance at the Space freetext, I should see not only the subs explicitly tagged with it, but also those in the category with this name.
    
    All categories would become freetexts. As in a given category is usually much more than under most freetexts, they would immediately overshadow most in the tag cloud, so their names need to be:
    a) of a default small size or
    b) of a reduced size to still show how many subs are beneath
    
    
    So, what do you think? A useful addition, or an overkill?

32. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #32

    So when I click Arctic, everything with the Arctic Category comes up. When I click Business, all the businesses (people, places, and things) come up.  Really. It makes finding things to inspire yourself with so much easier.
    
    We will need to adjust the size of these clusters though.  They have an unfair advantage and need to just have a 3/4 sized font.

33. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #33

    Overkill

34. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #34

    Actually, I think I'm gonna have to agree with AG on this one.  You can already get to the specific catagories with minimal problems, and the freetext by itself is a way to further specialize the catagorization of a submission without making the "Add Submission" page obese with options.  I think it'd detract from the uniqueness, if that's the right word, of the freetexts.

35. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #35

    Most people only search by free-text. They don't use the page search.  I didn't say it wasn't right or wasn't easy, just reporting the fact. Since it happens, why not fascilitate.

36. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #36

    *shrugs* I can live with that. Let's get more 'normal' freetexts, and then we'll see if we need this at all.

37. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #37

    Just to let you know, the table is showing 205 rows of categories. This includes the major and subcategory headings so the true number is a bit less. Of these there are similiar names between them.
    
    I don't think you can prove that people don't use the categories. I personally don't use the freetext. I like looking at it though. It is pretty. The only time I use the freetext is when it is listed with a submission.
    
    Codewise, I don't immediately see an easy way to do it either. I don't see a hard way either.
    
    My question is why flood the freetext with established categories? It is not like it is easy to rip through the freetext right now even without an extra 150+ choices. Also, a previous worry was a dilution of good freetext amidst white noise. Categories, to me, are white noise. Serve no purpose because they are already listed and simply thin out any other freetexts that might be starting to take hold.
    
    We could put a list of all the categories to the left of it possibly to reveal all the choices. But to put them in _as_ freetext choices I think is too much.
    
    I would rather try and come up with a way to put the freetext more for work for us somehow. It is good stuff, just not sure how to exploit it exactly....but I know there is something we can do with it...something.

38. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #38

    So, let's look at the former requirements again:
    
    

    
    - a limit of three on every sub - three is a good top number, but it can be kept within limits
    
    1) a tag-cloud on the freetext page, with a common, dry, sequential list linked to it
    
    2) eventually clear up the weirder ones, and tag old stuff with what seems to fit
    
    3) later on, skip those freetexts in the cloud that are linked to only one submission - should make it more compact, too (but show them in the list still)
    

    
    
    1) we could really need, some people don't like the cloud as much, and it will be more informative, especially once 3) is implemented
    
    2) is being worked on, slowly, but eventually... the first part is often a head-scratcher, the second is mostly on a per-visit basis. This will take a loooong time yet. :)
    
    
    So, do we have it? Or is anything missing among the features themselves?

39. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #39

    Conversation between manfred, Moon, and I.
    
    

    1:23 pm: I like the cloud (sort of) but I want the types of each category in
    there too.. to make it useful
    1:23 pm: I want to wait and see how it looks without the freetexts that only
    link to one sub.
    1:24 pm: I like the cloud, but I don't really think we need the catagory types in
    there
    1:24 pm: unless if they were used more as limiters than their own freetext
    1:24 pm: And I am caught in-between, as usual.     
    1:25 pm: (What do you mean by limiters?)
    1:25 pm: well it would give us another mode to search by
    1:25 pm: if we were using them to say "I want an item from the Arth setting"
    1:26 pm: And it would prompt Strolen to fix the listing by subtype that
    does not work real well
    1:26 pm: Lets say I wanted things for an arctic setting.
    1:26 pm: I'd click on Items and then click on the Arth freetext from there, thus
    getting only items from arth
    1:26 pm: I click Arctic and I get lifeforms and locations set for that
    1:26 pm: Arctic being a type category in both sections
    1:26 pm: and anyone who put artic in free-text
    1:27 pm: right, that'd work
    1:27 pm: That is what I want to do
    1:27 pm: okay
    1:28 pm: So... also an expansion to the Search box.
    1:28 pm: so, I'm gonna go revive that more freetext thread, or whichever it was
    that we talked about this in
    1:28 pm: well no
    1:29 pm: (Pariah: do that.)
    1:30 pm: I meant also to extend the search capabilities, as Pariah has
    described above - 'I want an Item from the Arth setting, with a certain word or phrase' -
    for instance.

    
    
    So, I'm going to do two things now, bring the topic back up for discussion and change my previous stance.
    
    What I'd like to see:
    -Catagory 1 and Catagory 2 be added as freetext options, off to the side of the wordcloud or at a minimised fontsize.
    -the option to continue looking at different catagories of other freetexts that share the current freetext.  So, if I was looking at the "Melee" catagory as a freetext, I'd see Arth, Coldforged, EVIL!!!, and funny freetexts in a smaller cloud.  And if I clicked on Arth I'd get melee, location, ect.
    -being able to use freetexts as limiters in the search.
    
    Umm, I know that I didn't say that too well, but I've got another 5 minutes before I gotta leave, so I'm gonna post this and clarify more later, if needed.

40. Re: Request: More freetexts

    #40

    Ooooh. You guys have excellent discussions. I like the opportunity that this opens.

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