The most dangerous voter of them all!

1. The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #1

   Now, does it seem only to me, or is there a silent explosion in Golden nominations?

2. The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #2

   Yep. Only admins have the right, right?
   
   As for "Golden Status"... Well, some things golden seem not that golden to me and other things un-golden seem way more golden... Well, it is the nature of humanity I guess. Tastes differ and all that.
   
   Still: Golden voting is an admin only feature, right? Cuz I thought I remembered Cheka and Dozus mentioning voting for Golden, but I dunno if they meant that THEY will be voting for golden.
   
   *shrugs* I got golden for the Stairs of Kienor as a result (my first ever :D), perhaps I ought to keep my yap shut, but it does seem kind of strange. Overly eager golden nominations like these dilute the value and worth of golden status. Still some of these newer nominations is an insult and a slap in the face of some older Citadellian un-golden subs.

3. The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #3

   Example of Cheka possibly awarding goldens:
   http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=2939
   http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=1378
   http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=1378
   
   Dang. IT IS CHEKA AWARDING GOLDENS! I AM SURE! See the bottom of this: http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=2914

4. The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #4

   Okay, while we are at it: I responded to Cheka in that thread. It has been deleted, just as many of my other comments have been. As a matter of fact someone has had a heyday deleting my comments lately. I don't know who, but it annoys me greatly. Perhaps the responsible admin could be grown up enough to face me about it openly?

5. The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #5

   I might have had something to do with this I fear. I think I inadverdantly gave Cheka the 'Gold Bug'.
   
   I havent voted anything golden since, well I'm not sure if I ever have actually before this week.
   
   I checked out Kienor and gave it aclick. Apparently I wasnt the only one, as my vote propelled it into gold.
   
   Same with Ink Drinkers. My vote was obviously the 3rd
   
   I golded Celestial Hypothesis because I think its an awesome opus!
   
   Now....Cheka has apparently decided that everythig is gold.
   
   Oh, and I had nothing to do with MoB and Markus the Black going gold.
   
   p.s. havent deleted any comments ever.
   

6. The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #6

   Cheka is inclined to do that. Have you noticed that with him, it's always either a 5/5 and a HoH, or it's crap?
   
   I don't even know how to vote a gold submission. I'm not even sure what it means.

7. The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #7

   It is the Oscar of the Citadel. You need to whip up your Oscar speech once you get it. It is the greatest honour that can be bestowed upon Citadellians and it is definitely NOT something that we award lightly. It is special and unique.
   
   As for this whole Cheka affair: manfred, Murometz and I had a chat. We all agreed that the only hope for the Citadel is for Cheka Man to lose his golden privileges and that loss will be in effect in present, past and future. Yes, that means we should purge the citadel for his old goldens.
   
   That is our take on this.
   
   -------------------------------------
   
   6:54 pm: he golded this too...2 5's, 2 HoH's and a gold or two...thats some "welcome back for sparK!" from Cheka
   6:54 pm: http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=2939
   6:57 pm: oh wait....you already list that one AG..nevermind
   [Ancient Gamer] 6:57 pm: Hey guys, think about how disappointed these fellas will be when they lose their goldens
   [Ancient Gamer] 6:58 pm: Yet we cannot let them keep them. It would be a great injustice. Goldens are supposed to be something special, not commonplace
   6:58 pm: I'm afraid that is inevitable. :|
   6:58 pm: so its already official? Cheka will be stripped of his golden wand?
   [Ancient Gamer] 6:58 pm: That is up to Strolen, but I have a gut feeling he will lose it
   6:58 pm: define 'lose it'
   [Ancient Gamer] 6:59 pm: Lose his golden privileges in present, past and future
   6:59 pm: ahhhh...nice
   7:00 pm: Do you think the thing with that "special title" has any hope?
   7:01 pm: special title?
   7:02 pm: Something the Admins would give to reknown Citadelians... probably shown in the profile.
   7:02 pm: A title you can't give to yourself, simply.
   [Ancient Gamer] 7:03 pm: Yeah, sure. A special title is more than alright.
   7:03 pm: For Cheka it would be "The Most Dangrous Voter Of All".
   7:03 pm: *Dangerous*, I mean.
   7:06 pm: Gangrenous too
   [Ancient Gamer] 7:07 pm: Hope he wouldn't be insulted by that     
   7:07 pm: I sit back and marvel in awe at the celerity with which the senior admins squash problems     
   7:07 pm: Yeah... a user should of course agree to the title.
   7:09 pm: Don't worry. There will be enough users to kill yet.
   [Ancient Gamer] 7:09 pm: There is a bug with the golden listing. If you have no nominations, your goldens aren't listed in the user profile
   7:10 pm: interesting
   7:10 pm: Hmmm... not a bug possibly - may just be an oversight.
   7:11 pm: what do yo mean if "you" have no noms...then they arent listed? *confused*
   7:11 pm: AG, split from the Admin Chatter thread all the posts related to this topic, and write also this there.
   [Ancient Gamer] 7:11 pm: It is a bug. I have one golden submission but no golden nominations. I have none listed. Others only have nominations and those are listed. Some have both and have both listed
   7:12 pm: A bug then.

8. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #8

   Some simple facts about the Golden Boom
   
   There are 12 Golden Submissions...
   
   Iain has 2
   Captain Penguin has 2
   Shadoweagle has 1
   Moonhunter has 1
   Manfred has 2
   spark! has 1
   Murometz has 1
   Ancient Gamer has 1
   and I have 1
   
   So it would seem that there is no one really dominating the Gold Submissions, and a few of these subs are rather old, so it is us just getting around to them.
   
   12 Golden subs out of 2,804 listed subs comes out to be 0.4% or 1 Golden Sub for every 233.66 submissions.
   
   As for Cheka being the Most Dangerous Voter...I would agree in the sense that he gives out 5/5s and HoHs the way people give out candy at Halloween. As for the Golden nomination, unlike the HoH which can be given multiple times by the same person to the same sub, its one gold per person per sub, at the very most. That means that each of these 12 were given the thumbs up for gold 3 times...36 golden nominations. That equates out to 0.2% of votes/comments granted to a submission.
   
   So I do not think that the Golden Boom is a bad thing, it is just a 'bloom' that will pass.

9. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

   #9

   Cheka shouldn't have access. I disabled it for now since if he has access, many more that shouldn't do have access as well. I just got back in town so will try and look at this closer this evening.

10. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #10

    I don't get you man. You think Cheka is going to quit throwing out goldens all of his own? Is he going to quit throwing out 5's as well? HoH's? Is the title "Golden Nomination" on every submission, however mediocre it may be, going to be desirable?
    
    

    
    So I do not think that the Golden Boom is a bad thing, it is just a 'bloom' that will pass.
    

    
    
    Sorry. Not my intention to be harsh or anything. No wonder there is war in the world, when we as a race perceive the same thing in such radical different light.

11. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #11

    We definately do not give the Goldens as much attention as they need, I will agree with that for sure.

12. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #12

    OK.
    
    It is working just how it is suppose to.
    
    Level 8 and up can vote for a Golden Submission.
    
    It takes 3 Golden votes to make it a Golden Submission.
    
    Any single vote will make it a Golden Nomination.
    
    As it is, I don't see a need to do anything in the immediate moment. We (perhaps I) made a decision way back when to make level 8 the cutoff and if they are above that cutoff then they have every right to vote golden. Now, if there are others getting in there that shouldn't be, then that is a bug.
    
    So now we need to seriously decide how we do that. Cheka is HoH crazy though, which is why we limited that. I don't see a major problem with him nominating a few Goldens. When I did it I went through probably a half dozen in one night and nominated them. If it continues at an accelerated pace then I might say something to him, but nobody has been barely using the golden so maybe it is about time somebody generated some interest in it. They say there is no such thing as bad publicity and Cheka is simply reminding us of the Goldens.
    
    Nominate some good ones and we will all vote our feelings and if more become Golden, good, if some just hover as Golden nominees for awhile. So be that too. I take the time it is nominated so I will make a 60 limit or so on nominations and those that don't make Golden will be cleaned from the nomination running.
    
    Any other ideas on how to handle it?

13. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #13

    Oh, and HoH. You are limited in how many you give by your level.
    
    Level 8 can, in theory, give 8 HoH to the same submission if they so desire.

14. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #14

    I had a thought while shovelling salad in my mouth and listening to my wife talk about the neighbors:
    
    How about a Platinum, Golden, and Silver submission section. The Silvers can strive to be Gold, the Gold for the ultimate, sacred, ultra-exclusive Platinum. Everyones happy! Silver is a privelege. It means your sub was GREAT! Gold is exactly what it is now...A special, not to be taken lightly, distinction of merit! and Platinum...well, one can dream...Oh what fun!
    
    Get rid of HoH! (Blasphemy!)...Silver goes there for 1 day...Gold goes there for 2...Platinum...1 week. This will also serve to lessen all the HoH's.
    
    Instead of HoH being what it is, it becomes a repository for the best submissions. Like a sports-style Hall of Fame. After X amount of silver, gold, and/or platinum votes...a submission heads to the Hallowed Halls of Honor for all eternity!
    
    But Muro! you crazy non-deserving-to-be-an-admin so and so...There will still be craziness. There will be hundreds of silvers! They will be given out the same way Cheka gives out 5's. Well, at first maybe, but once it sinks in over time, that Silver is the new HoH, and Gold, you can forget about unless you birth genius, things will be well.
    
    And the Golden Submission's intergrity will be maintained.
    
    The HoH becomes what its name suggests. A 'Hall' of 'Honor' where one can wander around and see the greatest subs of the citadel saved for all posterity!
    
    Hmmm...I expect this idea to be shot down faster than a quail in Texas :wink:

15. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #15

    I added probably 3 or 4 more golden nominations.
    
    I have tied the Golden nomination into the HoH vote.
    
    You vote for HoH. You lose a HoH vote like normal.
    
    You vote a Golden. You lose a HoH vote.
    
    So the Golden votes are now valuable again. I had limited time to come up with something to hopefully even it out and make everybody happy so if this solution sucks, let me know. Gotta go, baby has to go to sleep and we have company so she sleeps in the computer's room. (I have a laptop and will check in, just no more code changes.)

16. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #16

    I can't hit quail to save my life. Interesting though. Will ponder over pizza.

17. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #17

    Help.
    
    Well, a redefinition of Goldens is in order then CP. Golden = Another variant of Hall of Honour. Same s**t, different wrapping.
    
    So, we admins getting something we can label on the subs?
    
    Yes, I am disappointed. Very disappointed. I thought the goldens were the "Editor's Choice" on our site. Now it is just HoH in another mathematical wrapping. It is HoHx3. Power-up HoH.

18. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #18

    Well, you can look at it that way, but only 8th level and above + Admins can vote on it.
    
    Considering us admins haven't been voting then I think the need for other motivated individuals to get involved and have a say too (stop thinking of just Cheka). These are our level 8+ at the moment and only these people plus admins can vote for golden. (at the bottom of Citadel Explained is the full list of levels)
    
    15  MoonHunter 
    12 Scrasamax
    11 CaptainPenguin
    10 Mourngrymn
    10 manfred
    9 Cheka Man
    9 Strolen
    9 ephemeralstability
    9 Siren no Orakio
    8 Maggot
    8 Agar
    8 Ria Hawk
    8 Ancient Gamer
    
    Still a pretty elite list with only a few more in the running to get to it.
    
    7  EchoMirage 
    7 Shadoweagle
    7 Iain
    6 Murometz
    6 Pieh
    6 Dragon Lord
    
    And it would only make sense that the HoH submissions would be the main forerunners of the Golden and Muro's idea makes perfect sense AND it would eliminate the need for seperate voting (which we aren't really doing anyway) In this way I could count UNIQUE votes (so Cheka could vote 100 HoH on one sub and only one would count) and if a post got say 8 different HoH votes it hits Muro's Platinum or whatever which would be our Golden. OR any golden requires 5+ votes and then only the top 2% of each category are allowed to be Platinum or whatever. Put any kind of mathematical limitations you want and any criteria by mixing HoHs and Votes and limit them by whatever arbitrary number.
    
    If the Editor's Choice were being used to effect I would instantly say no, but the numbers Scras put together also don't show us doing submissions justice when we aren't picking them. An automated system associated with HoHs doesn't sound like a bad idea at all to me.
    
    Just playing a little devil's advocate because it is FAR from a bad idea.

19. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #19

    KISS is my motto. Gold, silver and platinum sounds complicated, but then I am a but a simple man.
    
    If you are going to do this, then at least remove the "Golden Nominee" sign lest we wake one day to find everything has become golden nominees. Removes the herd voting too.

20. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #20

    If we do it then the whole thing will be revamped.
    
    Could still only have Golden Submissions and ditch the rest with same type system. As many or few levels as we wanted.
    
    I still will remove Golden Nominations after 60 days though as soon as I have some spare time to put in that check. No sense nominations sitting there forever with nobody voting on them.

21. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #21

    Okay. I yield.

22. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #22

    So to sum it up:
    
    In the end we will have one nice way to show a submission is really to our liking - the Hall of Honour vote. For a time, the sub will be highlighted on the main page. Good.
    
    Aaand, from the HoHed submissions will be calculated the Golden Submission, in whatever way. Provided a Golden sub is rare, I am perfectly happy with it.
    
    
    As for Silver, Platinum, Iron, Copper and Nickle submissions, I say forget them. HoHs should be already an indicator something is really interesting, and the top 2% will recieve the Golden tag.
    
    ---
    
    The question is now, what to do of existing Golden nominations?
    
    I suggest to convert them to normal HoH votes (or a few, if you want) and see what happens. I think say most of them that deserve it will stay Golden. Oh, and because we are so wise, Admin votes could count doubly. ;)
    
    
    Aside, by special request, we can consider to have an anti-HoH vote available - for things which we do not find that good. It would be counted only for the Golden-aspiring submissions, of course.

23. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #23

    Yep! Anti-HoH! That certainly wont lead to any controversies!  :P

24. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #24

    Laughed out loud on that one!!

25. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #25

    Statistics are awesome and pretty damn easy. The problem is coming up with them. I am going to start another thread for this. I have the user profile page needing some revamps and once we experiment with some stuff in there, we can move it into the main site

26. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #26

    Just for the record: the Anti-HoH vote was meant as an Admin-ONLY, hidden vote, invisible to normal users, exclusively for the purpose of voting down things that do not deserve the honour of being Golden. There were some doubts about whether it ends well if we do give the users the ability to (indirectly) make Golden Submissions.
    
    Now that I think of it, it might be as well available to Moderators, if we ever have them. ;)

27. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #27

    I think we are moderators manfred. Only Strolen is a true admin.

28. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #28

    Strolen is also the webmaster, and we are, arguably, administrators, with our broad powers. Moderators were meant to have control over specific forums/categories. I hope you know what I mean. :)

29. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #29

    I have always called you all Admins as you have pretty much sweeping rights in the main citadel, the same as I do really. Only thing I have is direct access to the database.
    
    But then again I don't have any moderators at all, so you all are really moderators.
    
    Semantics.

30. Re: The most dangerous voter of them all!

    #30

    Might I suggest a change of name
    
    Hall of Honor should not be an "award". We should call these "Spotlight" submissions, something that someone thinks is cool or important enough that all of us should look at. This minimizes the importance of the In the Spotlight designation.    This also allows us to put up New or Good posts without any distress.  With that, you can a post spot lighted numerous times without any kind of "contest mentality" occuring. If you remove the printed statistics, it would make no difference on how many times a given one has been spotlighted.
    
    This is a bit more outside the range:
    Our Golden submissions might be called Honored ones.  Golden submissions are more what the honored were supposed to be.
    
    Maybe you can make one each time you grow a level past 7. 

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