Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#1

> Advice - The site's emphasis advice for GMs and Players on how to game.
> Artistic - The site emphasizes Gamer orriented Art and sometimes how to make it.
> Author - The site emphasizes writing in general and often Gamer related writing in specific. Fan Fiction writing sites would be in this catagory.
> Computer Game - The site emphasizes computer and console gaming.
> Fiction - The site emphasizes Gamer orriented Fiction. These sites only post up stories the owners (or friends) have written.
> Generators - The site emphasizes generators useful for Gamers.
> Humor - The site emphasizes Gamer orriented humor. The site has the funny.
> Mechanics - The site emphasizes Game Rules and
> Online - The site supports online play, either as a forum, chat, or MMORPG.
> Program - The site emphasizes tool and database programs useful for gaming. Includes PDA programs.
> Resource - The site's emphasis is on information that can be useful to Gamers.
> Specific - The site emphasizes one specific game or genre of games.
> Tools - The site emphasizes tools for the computer
> Wasting - The site has games, toys, images, fiction, and things that go bing, to kill some time with.

> Company Site - The site is for a company that sells games and game related products.
> Gamer Orriented - The site is created for gamers by gamers
> Other Orriented - The site is created for another or general audience, but has gamer useful
> Pay Site - The site has membership fees

Your thoughts on all of this?

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#2

Look good at first glance. Going to throw down some brainstorming

Summaries: Ability to go view the "submission" or a link to go directly to the site.
XP: You don't earn XP or Submission increases for putting in a link.
--Do you think it would be fair for a newbie to come in and post 50 RP links and be the equal of somebody with 50 submissions?
--Might have to figure out another way to give some kind of credit for posting the link though.

Association with the rest of the site:
-There won't be any really...except you will be able to link to the site submission just like you would any other submission.

Actually, the more I look at it, the more work it will be to separate it all. d**n. I would have to write in a ton of checks to see if it is a website post vs. a regular post which will intertwine in a complex tangle of if statements that will make a lot of extra spaghetti vs isolating websites from the rest.

I don't know Moon, I will have to look at this a bit closer.

What do we want available for the websites?

Website Title
Link
Description
Votes
Comments
Hits

Scroll
suggestions

A lot of the same I guess, but I am going to need to make a separate interface for it instead of it being directly tied into the rest.

Yes, implementation, think I must on.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#3

Yes, they do need to be handled differently.

However, are they useful now? No, not really. So we can ignore them or just insert a couple of checks.

1 XP per link entry. You should get something for them. However, 0 xp is a good thing as well.

You can let them count as posts, but the low XP will keep them out of level gaining. Besides, if someone puts up 50 valid web submissions... because we will challange or just delete bogus ones, they should get some credit for the effort.

Report blocking is all they need. It would be nice if they don't show up on the listing (such as new submissions or the no votes/ no comments), but not a requirement. You could clean those up slowly over time (though killing them on the new submission section first would be a really good first step).

The Submissions. These can fill in, just like they do with NPCs and other entries

Introduction to Site

URL

Explanation and Additional Info
... so optional to use....

We can comment and rate from there. Scrolling and Codexing would be nice, but not required.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#4

Oh and we can use the same checks and such for Reviews of Books/ Movies... out that that forum section too.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#5

COPIED AND PASTED FROM A PREVIOUS POST
Just so it is together.

-----------

Bouncing from project to project as always. Trying to put together a good list of losely connected ways to sort and/or organize the links. Just brainstorming right now to try and get everything I can think of together.

Most important on the list is try to think of all the different sorting/catagory possibilities. I am trying to think of a way to not limit each site into a blanket catagory when it would fit into a number of other catagories as well.

I am thinking I can figure out a way for somebody to search for something like "fantasy, homebrew, freeform, adventure" or "horror, play-by-email, gurps" or any other mix of different type catagories and come up with those that fit what they are looking for. Basically, only one or two catagories to put a site in is not good enough, I am looking for a way to put it in all the catagories that fit that site and then make the searcheable.

Just brainstorming for the most part at the moment.

Looking through Moon's monster link list and a couple other sites I gathered a list of different topics and sorting options available in those areas.

Online Gaming
-Freeform
-e-mail
-chat/IRC
-post/forum
-MUD

System
-homebrew/indie
-Gurps
-Ad&d
-D20
-etc (as many as needed)

Genre
-Fantasy
-Sci Fi
-Horror/supernatural
-Superhero
-Action/Spy/Historical/Alt. Reality

Worlds
-Resources
-Building
-Settings

Resources
-Adventures/encounters
-Items/weapons
-Traps
-Fonts
-Generators
-Languages-Maps
-Guides/Wisdom/Tips/Tutorials
-Netbooks
-Links
-Game Design
-Tools/Software

General catagories
-Community
-Commercial
-Writing
-email list
-Forum
-Stories/Campaign Notes
-Artwork
-Research

Not exhaustive yet, but with your hope I think it might be. I want to be as general as possible while being specific....riiiiiight. If you see duplicates or combining possibilites let me know those as well as anything else I might have missed.

Work in progress to be edited as required.

------

I think most of them fit into your categories already, but I needed this over here so it is easier to view.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#6

Ok, brace yourself Moon. Got a soapbox here and it used to hold specialized soap rendered from human fat.

Musts:
A defined category system.
An ordering system.

I have always had a problem with link farms. With the multiple levels of categories, by the time you get to where you think you want to be you can't find anything. So then it goes back to a higher level fumbling around blindly hoping to stumble on a gem. Sites are forced to be placed in only one or two categories when they actually fit into a multitude. Hard to decide which place to put them and, when you do, they are then stuck there. You don't really want to put yourself in a top level, where you belong because you are not specialized, because people rarely sort through all those links when they are usually looking for something that has a category.

You can have only 10 major categories and leave it that, but once you get a lot of links they just turn into another IGW so you need subcategories, and here we go again. Then, how do you sort them? By hits? Those can be misleading. Votes? Maybe, for the popular sites. The sorting is almost arbitrary.

The good thing is that these lists are super easy to maintain. Somebody puts in a link, picks a category or two and they are done. Their link disappears into the listing rarely to be seen again if the listing is large enough.

There are topsites that make you send people to your topsite and track that. Popularity.
There is voting. Do you allow one vote? Once a day? Popular sites, again, will get the votes, as I suppose they should especially if they are a good resource. But then these popular sites hide the other sites and people stop looking beyond the top sites in each category.

There needs to be an easier way to find sites through mulitiple categories. There needs to be a better way to show the sites that you are looking for. Not sure if I found a way, but here is the thought. Not perfect by any stretch and there are a lot of holes that need figuring out, but it is a start of an idea. This idea will also take work to classify, but I think the results will outweigh the initial setup of each link.

----------------

(Based somewhat on this old thought if you want http://www.strolen.com/guild/index.php/topic,2166.msg35350.html#msg35350)

First, I think that we need more categories...within reason. A bit more specific as well. Maybe up to 30-40+ or so (items has almost 30 cats so this isn't that many). Maybe a genre category as a filter...

Lets say 30 categories.

Now there are these 30 categories. I go to input a site. Each of these 30 categories is showing with a checkbox next to each of them. I check all the categories that my site fits into and submit it. The script will take the number I clicked on, divide it into 30 and that is the value that goes into each of these categories. So if I pick 30 categories, I get a 1pt in each category. For my site, lets say I pick 5 categories, which makes 6pts in each category. I choose Resource and Advice as 2 of my 5 choices.

So, imagine this list of 30+ categories along the left side on the actual links page. The genre filter perhaps at the top or something.

I click on Resource. All the sites that checked resources when they were submitted will be listed, the ones that chose less categories will get a higher sort order. So the Citadel would have a value of 6 on this click. Others that are only Resources could have up to 30pts down to those that chose 10 categories that would have 3pts. So I want a resource, so all those should be there sorted by the importance they put on themselves as being a resource.

There are too many choices still or I still can't find what I want. I click Advice. Now I have Resource and Advice chosen. So the Citadel now has a total of 12pts for those two choices. The one that beat me in Resource with 30pts is now no longer in the listing and I am near the top with 12pts. Other sites may have only put Resource (15pts) and Advice (15pts) as their choice so they have 30pts.

You can keep clicking till nothing fits, each time you click you are slowly focusing towards a kind of site with information you are looking for. This way there is no fixed hierarchy and you only click on what you are looking for. You don't have to dig down, go back up, try another path. If you lose too many sites then you simply unchoose one of your choices.

Different sites with a different category choices come up with a different combination of sites. So you aren't continuously seeing the same sites over and over (unless you choose the same options over and over) but with each category combination a new set of sites come up in a new order AND they are all still relative to what you are looking for.

With this system you can still define a filter on genre or whatever else.

What do you think?

HELP

#7

(another conversation killer? I hope not)

I am coding a link index on Sunday. Help me or Hate me, get the opinions in now.

I gave a couple people my thoughts and for those that care, here is my vision for the links.

I want this link index to be THE place to go for links. I want to eventually get to the point where it is us and rpggateway as THE places to go for good links. Effie has the toplist and all that crap, not sure if I want to go there, all I care about right now is being able to find something I need. Hence the slight complexity of the system. It isn't going to be a input a link and forget it, each link will have to be reviewed and categorized before it is inputted. I will not turn down any links, obviously, but I am going to figure out a way to categorize and rank them that makes sense and is useful.

I would LOVE to hear thoughts on this because I NEED your help. But I am also determined to do it so if I must simply learn from mistakes than I will do it that way.

So, I am begging, please take a look at this and give me any thoughts opinions etc.

I am psyched to do this and would rather do something we all think is a good idea vs. doing my own thing.

SUNDAY!

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#8

I would respond, but I am not a very frequent user of links.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#9

I like the idea! If I can be more useful than that let me know :up:

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#10

Online Gaming
-Freeform
-e-mail
-chat/IRC
-post/forum
-MUD
-MMORPG

System
-homebrew/indie
-Gurps
-Ad&d
-D20
-etc (as many as needed)

Genre
-Fantasy
-Sci Fi
-Horror/supernatural
-Superhero
-Action/Spy/Historical/Alt. Reality

Worlds
-Maps
-World Building
-Locations (Settings)

Resources
-Adventures (encounters, plots)
-Items (weapons)
-Lifeforms (NPCs, Societies)
-Traps
-Fonts
-Articles
-Netbooks
-Links
-Game Design (Mechanics)
-Software (Tools, Generators)

General catagories
-Company
-Commercial (Sales)
-Writing
-Email list
-Forum
-Fiction (Campaign Notes)
-Artwork
-Research (Historical, Fact)
-Blogs
-News (Reviews)
-Computer Games
-Cards
-Humor

Special Filters
-Requesting Players
-Collaborative

Mixing the category listings with my idea. You will be able to view the links either way. Only going two levels. Still able to choose to put yourself into as many or few categories as you wish which bounces you around in sort order. I dumped the "Systems" as I think there would be simply too many. We can add that later if we wish, will leave the ability open. Currently 38 cats with two extra filters.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#11

I like the idea! If I can be more useful than that let me know :up:

Help iron out the categories. Missing anything that definately doesn't fit in the current categories. Anything even close to redundant? etc..

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#12

While I am all for this section, do you want to just code it and then have to do it again later when it does not quite work?

A couple of questions:
1) Do you want the links section to feel and use the same basic coding of the rest of the site, OR do you want to do something completely different? I know you, you want to do something different because it is a coding challange. My question: is that going to make it easier for people who use the site to use the links?

2) The original categories were to use the same flow as the rest of the site. Now we have 38 and you can choose upto 5. The same argument that we had for limiting the number of entries in two categories now applies. So now we have 38 things to get lost in.

3) Will you have a search function up to the task of searching for the refining page. Or if one of my criteria is Fantasy, will I just have to look through all 200 pages of fantasy entries? So can I search with two or more buttons to refine? Will it really work? If it does, can we have it on the main site?

4) Online Gaming could be condensed some. There are not many posts in the web links we have that fit the category.

5) Resources -Adventures (encounters, plots) -Items (weapons) -Lifeforms (NPCs, Societies) -Traps -Fonts
-Articles -Netbooks -Links -Game Design (Mechanics) -Software (Tools, Generators)
Netwbooks includes many of the above.
As do articles
Do we need a trap division? Why not use all our normal divisions?
Do we want to send people to other link farms? (yes, but this is a policy question)

6) To be honest, I went through the IGW and the original listing I gave easily matched 99%. The uber list of 30 some odd things, but everything will fit.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#13

I want a good basic idea to build on to start with. Yes, a coding challenge and all that, but the important part is having a link index that is useful.

1) Links just won't work in the system. The system is not restrictive enough to actually find something and too restrictive by putting the link into only one category. For instance, the Resource category is going to be simply huge, and the sites in there can only be in one category. There is no hope of finding a resource with the ability of only confining it to Resource and say Gamer Orientated. There needs to be a way to combine as many different 'filters' as possible and that is what I want.

2) Yes 38 categories to get lost in but you can choose any number of combinations. 38^38 combinations or whatever. You will not be limited to one in each. In theory, if somebody checked all the boxes when submitting a link, then that link would be the only one showing when a person browsing clicked on every single category.

3) I will refine the search for both. (have you seen the V2.0 search page that I am working on? http://www.strolen.com/search2.php) The main browsing will be the 'filtering' as you click on categories just like in the main site...but on a level allowing more combo options than two.

4) Online Gaming. Perhaps, but with my vision of become a big link index I expect those to be different enough so that people can find the type game they are looking for. With the "looking for players" flag on links I am also hoping to be a resource for people to find games.

5) May not need a trap division. I have no problem sending people to other link farms. Yes, looking at it a bit more our divisions do make sense.

6) Yes, they sure do (I see some overlap with tools, generators, programs; fiction, author) . But they don't do enough in my estimation...

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#14

A start:

http://www.strolen.com/links.php

Categories are currently debateable and easy to change through the normal web based interface. Had to get something up to code with so went with my list with Moon additions.

I got the database schema (biggest time eater) and how it is normalized.
Also the admin interface to changing/updating categories.

Going to need another 5 or 6 hours to finish links 1.0.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#15

** The difference between Summary and Description is?

** I would put resource (and possibly worlds) above Genre and online game. It increases usability, despite alpha order.

**Suggestions to Genre
Other/ Unique (For the really strange things like Aztec Mechas in Space (there is a game based on this) and odd combinations like Deadlands)

Many: Sites that support many genres.

**Is there a way to link several related sites together? There are several posts that list All the Writing, All the Japan, All the Firearms, sites. All the home pages. The equivalent of a codex. OR keywords for the search. Thinking about it, keywords would be more useful... and eventually intergrated back into the site search)

**I am also going to need a way to enter in links that other people posted when I transfer stuff over. That space can go away after I transfer the stuff. Also the ability to do it with the comments on the site would be good.

**We need to get all the admins to vote and comment on these things as soon after I transfer them as they can.

**Can we see what the comments and posts will look like?

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#16

Summary/Description: Thought was that the summary should be limited to about a couple lines max whereas the description is the actual full description of the site. I think I will make it optional. If you don't put in a summary then it just truncates the first so many characters of the description and shows them.

Sort order for their display is easily manageable.

Extra genres are easily manageable in the exact same way as the main citadel. ( you can add and play with them through http://www.strolen.com/linksmod.php )

I like the linking of sites together. That can be done the same way as you mention. Trying to figure out how to use and abuse the keywords beyond just the search though and "freetext"...

Giving credit, gotcha. Everything will go into a pot and every single link will require an admin review/approval before it is displayed.

Haven't designed the comments and posts yet, next weekend hopefully.

Thanks Moon! Really!

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#17

Spent a little time on it. http://www.strolen.com/links.php

I was going to do some different formatting but Moon's words rang in my ear and I conformed it to the Citadel way.

The list of links on the left. You can click on as many as you want, click on a selected one to get rid of it. This is what will drive what links you see. I added the AND and OR since it made sense. For those selections you click on you can require all of them (AND) or anything in those selections (OR) to add some more options. Except for it showing selected, this does nothing at the moment, haven't written the queries. Fun enough just getting that working.

The actual title of the link will (eventually) take you to the "submission" portion where you can comment and vote and stuff. The visible actual link will take you directly to the linked page so you can visit it immediately or see what people say.

You can add a link, but you can't edit it at the moment, but it will take and show up.

the sdfasdfsfda at the top will be the sort order stuff (most recent, hits, votes etc). The main link line (Home Articles Dungeons) will stay there as is.

The right column will be redone completely though for link stuff to include:

Sacred Seal
Requesting Players
Collaborative
(anything else that we can come up with to differentiate)

Favorites will work the same as for submissions. You can sort of make a bookmark list I guess, or something.

Debating about banners. I think having the site's banner (if available) in their submission area would be cool. Might have to make a gallery section to upload banners to. (I don't like hotlinking to other people's sites, rather have it hosted with the Citadel).

Req Players: This idea needs some help I think. Ever since pbem.com went down there are a lot of upstarts to replace them. I have no need to replace them but it is always good to have more places to advertise a game. A time limit to show requesting players probably.

Member votes / visitor votes. Sort of like www.hotscripts.com. Member ratings are shown separate than visitor ratings. Visitor ratings could be reset every X amount of time while member ratings stay forever. Then at some point we could have a top list that seems to be so popular and it wouldn't skew anything else. Ability for people to put voting links on their own pages and all that. Members could vote as visitors too. Would be that 1 vote/24hrs type thing.

Random thoughts as always.

Probably last time I will work on it till the end of the month. Going away on holiday starting the 9th or whatever and will be back around the 21st or so.

Re: Proposed Web Submissions Categories

#18

I think the area dedicated to link is waaay too huge. Unless you are going to stuff in some kind of preview picture or something, do you really need that much height? (Cause it is the height that is the major issue)