multi-age world

#1

I have an idea for a world that has several continents except that continent repersents a different historical setting. Roman, Medieval, Greek etc. Of course I won't explain this to the players. what do you think?

Re: multi-age world

#2

Thats weird! I had the same idea for a game I was going to make! I had Roman, Medieval Europe, and fuedal japan in my world. I put it so that each continent was seperated by the sea, and that they would trade, and war with each other. I underestimated how much work I would have to put into it, and my friends became curious about what I was doing by myself all the time, and if they found out I liked this fantasy stuff they would never let it go. So I scraped it. You should go for it though, but I suggest doing it with a friend or your gonna get overwhelmed.

Just make sure you are true to each civilizations history. Roman warriors, for example, used a series of stabbing moves and shield blocking in their attacks. Knights of medieval Europe had a wrestling martial art they learned, and Samurais were slightly suicidal in their form of swordsmanship. Try to recreate a vast and colorful world of the varying cultures, or it will come down hard around you.

Re: multi-age world

#3

BORRRING.
That's PLAYED OUT. No more Roman/Medieval/Greek copies. No more, I say.

Re: multi-age world

#4

:twisted: what are you talking about the whole origion of fantasy is from myths and legends and none are better than the roman and greek ones. As for the medieval that is like the root of nearly all fantasies, despite the fact that they are based on early middle ages.

Re: multi-age world

#5

I think the reasons so many think it is played out is that there needs to be an explanation on how you manage to get a medieval group on another continent, when a medieval period needs the fall of a Roman-esk empire to create it? The same things for Greeks and Romans.

So, you need to create societies based upon those societies, mirror societies... things based on them. If you are going to have societies similar to these periods, you need to explain a) how they got that way, b) why, if they have contact with each other their ideas and goods have not transfered with each other, c) an explanation as to why the Romans have not conquered everyone else (they could walk over a Greek Culture because of their material resources (Greeks lands have limited resources... that was reflected in their culture), they could walk over the feudal governments because of their lack of cohesive defense... and you begin to get the idea)?

Things need explanations and interconnections. Might I suggest, World Building 102 http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=1148

Re: multi-age world

#6

Yes I do get your point but I meant fantasy continents with the theme of historical periods. Also the period would only apply to the humans. I did not plan for them to have war with each other just to give a balenced world where the players can go where ever they want. It would be like being able to play any kind of historicaly themed game without leaving the actual world.

However it would be intresting to see different civilizations pited against each other, feudal lords could use crossbows and advanced weaponry, not to mention the romans wouldn't stand a chance against a trebhucha... you know the huge catapult I don't know how to spell it.

Also it doesn't take much imagination to build give reasons for one society appearing without the demise of another. For example the feudal system came out of a chaos after the invasion of barbarian tribes (dark ages) and you would not have to go into historical detail.

Finaly they are not just European settings I'm talking egyptian/ hittite, native American, Ninja and Oriental. All in one world. The wars between them would be intresting

Thanks for your argument Moonhunter by the way

Re: multi-age world

#7

But WHYYYYYYYY does it have to be SOOOO MUCH LIKE EARTH?
I find it boring, to go to the same old European castle and deal with pseudo-Germans, and then go south and see the pseudo-Romans... It just seems to me like a lack of imagination.
They've been done a million times before, trust me, regardless of how much of fantasy is based on it... That's one of the reasons most fantasy novels these days suck. I'm not gonna' lie to you. Most fantasy novels suck. The reason a novel is GOOD is that it finds an interesting spin on things, OR manages to be unique.
I, for one, am tired of old Earth cultures. Make something new.

Re: multi-age world

#8

I did not plan for them to have war with each other just to give a balenced world where the players can go where ever they want. It would be like being able to play any kind of historicaly themed game without leaving the actual world.

However it would be intresting to see different civilizations pited against each other, feudal lords could use crossbows and advanced weaponry, not to mention the romans wouldn't stand a chance against a trebhucha... you know the huge catapult I don't know how to spell it.

"Trebuchet". It's French, so it's pronounced differently than it's spelled.

Also... There isn't a "stable" place. Countries are always going to war. And the "medieval-based" countries are going to destroy the Roman countries, and so on. If the medievals perceived a less powerful or advanced culture, they'd probably want to take it over. ALSO, if the medievals are feudal because of barbarian invasions, why haven't the pseudo-Romans also been affected?

Re: multi-age world

#9

Because the Romans are on a different continent and there is a huge sea in between. Also the romans are not restricted by the 'if you think you are a heritic' thing that effects Medieval europe. The romans would adept, copy the weapons and probley make them better.

Also most fantasy novels are based on civilisations that don't really resemble them at all. A novel can be made into a masterpiece by research. David Gemmell for instance provides worlds that have a wealth of historical detail and very little magic. Besides the copied stuff is still topping the chart. wheel of time, Shannara, Eregon its obvious that it depends on how much fantasy you read on wheather it is cliched or not.

Re: multi-age world

#10

Actually......the Cap'n makes a good point. I never thought of making Roman like countries would be boring for the players. In fact, it reminded me of how much I hated playing the game "Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego". An old game I played as a kid that let you travel back in time. I still remember how I skipped through pages of dialoge on history. The game sucked, and the T.V show made me near suicidal. I've got to change my earlier advice, let this one go.

Re: multi-age world

#11

I don't see how the way that fantasy books are selling OR Carmen Sandiego are relevant...
THREAD DRIFT WARNING.

I see all of this, Necromancer, and I'm still thinking... It's just like us. It's boring. Nobody wants to tramp through the same old medieval castle, cross the sea to encounter the same old Roman legionaries speaking pseudo-Latin. Don't copy real Earth cultures so closely, and I guarantee you, it will be a much more satisfying, artistic, and generally interesting product.

Re: multi-age world

#12

There is one major problem with the entirely new fantasy setting that doesnt have at least some root in Earth history. While it can be difficult to assimilate all of the information to play in an authentic oriental or even Mediterranean setting, there is a wealth of common information to draw upon. There are all sorts of movies, books, and even travel magazines that deal with the areas of interest.

On the other hand, creating an entirely new world has the dissadvantage of there being only one single source of information on the matter. One person. While some of these new worlds are very creative and innovative, they require us to read through some long, and not always interesting posts and dissertations on the politics, history, and mechanics of said worlds.

now I like to read, but nothing turns me off of a game more quickly than having to take a crash course in someone elses imagination.

Re: multi-age world

#13

Have to consider the source of the opinion as well. CP is an avid world builder with an abundance of material. My personal opinion drives even farther than Scras. I personally have no problem with a mix-match of Roman-Greco-Indian-Mayan-Asian etc., etc. anything.

There is rarely going to be a person that takes the Romans and successfully duplicates them. A) Rarely is anybody going to do the the research involved with understanding the intracacies of the entire civilization enough to make it historically accurate. B) There is rarely anybody who is going to play in that game that knows them well enough to actually care what if any facts are true. C) Basing a game on the Romans will still be entirely full of the world creator's own interpretations and ideas and while they will be refered to as "Romans" I can pretty much guarentee they will be only a slight shadow of what they really were historically. The world creator will fill in all the holes with whatever they want and make it their own.

For instance Sydney Cain said:

Just make sure you are true to each civilizations history. Roman warriors, for example, used a series of stabbing moves and shield blocking in their attacks. Knights of medieval Europe had a wrestling martial art they learned, and Samurais were slightly suicidal in their form of swordsmanship. Try to recreate a vast and colorful world of the varying cultures, or it will come down hard around yo

Now if you didn't call them Romans or Knights or whatever then who would know? The Agloths use Stabbing Moves, the Orlans use a wrestling martial arts style, blah blah.

Then it goes back to what Scras mentioned: If you tell me you have a new culture based on the Romans, that is good for me because I have a starting point (even if I am ignorant of the Romans or very knowledgeable) and I can use those assumptions to help build on whatever changes and such that the builder has. That is a very positive boost for me.

I think I could even win a challenge of "Show me a culture that doesn't resemble a historical earth culture."

Lastly, it is an outstanding idea to start world building with something you are somewhat familiar with. Once you start creating you may go off on tangeants and switch everything around and the original idea will become a distant memory but it was the thought that started you on the road. I would again wager that this idea, while to some might seem mundane, will slowly develop and probably outgrow the original idea into something much bigger and better.

As a matter of fact....

http://www.strolen.com/guild/index.php/topic,1176.0.html

Re: multi-age world

#14

Wow, that is also a good point. Okay, this is what I got so far:
A) Dont try to completely replicate an old civilization
B) Try only to borrow certain, interesting facts on past Civilizations
C) Use past history to make a unique, and different, world.

Re: multi-age world

#15

Because the Romans are on a different continent and there is a huge sea in between. Also the romans are not restricted by the 'if you think you are a heritic' thing that effects Medieval europe. The romans would adept, copy the weapons and probley make them better.

Okay a couple of things:
1) If the "lands" are going to be historical preserves of sorts, what keeps them from changing or evolving to meet their new circumstances?
a) Are these lands copies (including geography) of their various cultures/ places or just analogs.
b) In the case of Romans, the Romans where shaped by their conquests and the other cultures around them. So without an Egypt or Gaul (or heck the rest of Europe to be barbaric), they would not be Roman... or anything like Roman. It is the interconnection of these peoples with the peoples around them (And even China and Japan had interconnections despite certain restrictions their governments placed on travel and trade, their interconnections were the responses to their isolation policies).
c) If they are analogs/ mirrors of the various cultures, then it is a bit different. However, Feudal-Land needs a Roman-like precursor, Rome-Land needs Greek Like precursors, with Egypt like, Gual Like, and Medeteranian like people on conquer.

2) If there is a huge ocean between the various continents...
a) Why can't they cross them?
b) If they can't cross them, then there is not trade and interaction... fine but then...
c) How do the PCs get across them?
d) If PCs can get across them, why not others?

3) What is keeping them in their place, and what are people doing to get around those restrictions?

The idea is fine, to base various lands upon historical counterparts. However, once you put everyone in the same "play ground", their interactions will change many things.

Now Arth has a similar issue. Each Biome is a copy of some other historical place and time. (Some were imported with people, others were empty). Each one has a "Way", as in the "way things should be around here". Actions that do not follow "the way" on a small scale are possible, but there is resistance to them in terms of bad luck or even breakage of items. Large scale breakings of the way, cause mass bad luck, plague, mass destruction.

For simplistic example, houses in the biome need to be tudor or neo-tudor in style. If I built a house in a Japanese style, that house would suffer from wood ward, the wax would not keep the panels sliding, and the paper would keep falling out of the screens. Eventually, the house would just be infested with serious mold and collapse. Anyone living in said house would suffer from bad luck in everything they did, untill the house was changed over.

Now housing styles, and the way of the biome, can change over time. So tudor style become neo-tudor style, and eventually might become something else. However, if change is too fast or too drastic (or no change happense), the pylon in the biome takes measures to keep things in line. This artificial control is kept up by the pylons in each biome. They run the birth rate, natural death rate, and several cultural and physical factors in each biome.

Check out Arth in the Settings area.

Re: multi-age world

#16

Now if you didn't call them Romans or Knights or whatever then who would know?Â The Agloths use Stabbing Moves, the Orlans use a wrestling martial arts style, blah blah.
http://www.strolen.com/guild/index.php/topic,1176.0.html

Well that's all well and good, as long as the Agloths don't have names like Caius and Marius, and wear togas and have an Emperor. It's just *too* similar that way. I understand that you want to base a culture on something, I do that too. But if you cleave so close to it, it isn't interesting anymore.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, Nec, but I believe what you want is:
Several continents, separated by seas. On one continent, there are the Aelians (I'm gonna' make up names), who are basically ripped-off Romans with differently-named gods. On the other continent there are the Craconians, who are basically just a hodge-podge of European medieval cultures with changed names. Is that right? OR where you intending to maybe put something interesting into it? Maybe instead of giving them a pseudo-Latin language, you put some time into making a language that sounds interesting and new rather than same old same old?

Whatever.
I'm just a bastard, that's all.

Re: multi-age world

#17

You are that CP, but you are also a Master World Builder and you must step back and think about when you were just starting out when giving advice to an obviously newbie type question. Not everybody can jump straight into advanced mythmaking and such.

This forum isn't called Sagely Advice for nothing, and there are few as Sagely as you when it comes to World Building so be gentle, your words carry great weight.

Re: multi-age world

#18

Damn I have to write a alot of answers. But don't get me wrong its great to ge this much feedback.

First of all to the captain, yes that is a good portrail of my world. The Medieval and the Romans are the only ones I have so far and I was refering to the general theme of the age. Each land has elves and dwaves as well as humans. The humans are the main charactors although. However I am not going to bother with languages it just isn't me I'd rather just translate the stuff or make the PCs Bi-lingual.

Also you can't really cleve it close with fantasy races and... well realism the story has a way of feeling real. A world that is like our own is easier to believe than thoose LotR rip offs. I know many critics criticised Narnia because it was just to much of a fantasy to believe in it. Thats why it is good to have historical detail. In normal books you connect with the characters you are playing and with fantasy it is harder. Besides the history is not part of our lives.

Re: multi-age world

#19

I disagree heartily with CP on this one. I have built worlds for a long time and so has CP, but unlike him, I like to stick close to historical earth cultures. Scrasamax and Strolen touched upon important matters in that regard, for it is way easier for a player to imagine a mirror culture, than it is to imagine something far out there.

Now, I like going far out there. I like having my players enter the twilight zone, but for me to do that successfully, and dramatically, I need a firm, thorough base in something the players recognize.

And CP: You can argue all you want about historical templates and to what degree they should be used, but your mesopotamian and mesoamerican influences can hardly be denied. Are you a cultural fascist then? Are german, saxon, roman, japanese, viking and french influences wrong because they are old? Old is not bad. Way out there is bad. No recognition is bad.

Whatever historical template we use, and we all use them, even you mr. Meixingu, we should remember that it not the basic template that makes a setting good. It is everything else.

Re: multi-age world

#20

To Moonhunter:

1. Firstly the lands are not historical reserves the lands just haven't reached the point of changing yet, the Romans haven't taken over all the continents that they inhabit yet. The Medievals still think the world is flat, even though the Romans know better they just don't have the resources to cross it. And the point where they fight each other is just is far away after the reformation and the renesounce (not in that order). No one has a clue about what lies beyond the oceans. No they are not exact copies but with a greater historical detail than your average high fantasy.

2. On the PCs... oh come on its a fantasy thay could use teleportation, advanced ships, luck or even flight, but mostly its just daring.

3. As for the different cultures. By the way the greeks will be part of the roman world, as will the egyptians. Although the egyptians will be in a different part of the land and will be like a different world before and after the romans conquer it. How were the greeks and egyptians get conquered anyway.

Re: multi-age world

#21

How were the greeks and egyptians get conquered anyway?

Wow. There is no short reply to that question, necromancer.

As for the Balkan peninsula, you should read about Pyrrhus of Epirus and Philip V of Macedon, and especially his son Perseus of Macedon. Those were the prominent Greeks of their time and were involved in the struggle against Rome and the subsequent fall of Greece. (Athens and Sparta had long since fallen to the might of Macedon)

As for the fall of Egypt... Might I suggest reading about Cleopatra and Marc Anthony?

Re: multi-age world

#22

And CP: You can argue all you want about historical templates and to what degree they should be used, but your mesopotamian and mesoamerican influences can hardly be denied. Are you a cultural fascist then? Are german, saxon, roman, japanese, viking and french influences wrong because they are old? Old is not bad. Way out there is bad. No recognition is bad.

First of all- I am SO TOTALLY a cultural fascist. :D
Now... Yes, you are right. But I do believe I have it watered down and spread out enough that the players don't instantly think "Aztecs" or "Japanese" or "Byzantines" just because they see my samurai/Crusader-patterned Meixingu knights offering the heads of infidels at their ziggurat temples and singing Gregorian-esque chants in battle, carrying Japanese-like war banners and wearing helmets that resemble Greek hoplite helms; there's simply too many separate cultural ideas thrown into the mix for the idea to be pigeonholed into a single conception. I will admit that I use Earth cultures as templates... Of course, who doesn't? BUT I don't do it so blatantly and obviously that we can clearly just say "this is Roman land" or "this is German land". Also, I think European cultures are played out, with the exception of some of the earlier and more exotic ones, like the Etruscans, the Germanic tribes, and the pagan Slavs. D20'n Pals has seen to it that the straight up medieval period is rather stale.

HOWEVER, I suppose I shall just back off. I'm getting nowhere here. He'll understand my point in a while anyway. :penguin:

Re: multi-age world

#23

The Medieval still think the church is flat

:D
Ich liebe typos

Re: multi-age world

#24

Question: Are the medievals right? Is the world flat? (Je l'amie typos too)
Also, keep in mind that the power structures, religions, and technological levels are what make these cultures what they are. Are the Romans a republic or an Empire? Does the Church (whatever Church it may be) have uncontested total authority over the medievals, or do they have to keep kings under careful scrutiny? Are the Japanese imperial or still a handful of feuding shogunates? Also, have the medievals discovered the printing press yet? Have the Chinese developed gun-powder (originally used in religious festivals to scare away demons, I think, and then was later adapted for weapons)? Do the medievals have the most advanced navy? Do most people (or at least the people who matter) still have the fear of sailing out of sight of land?
On religion: who has the right of it? Is there a definite heirarchy of human-like gods who have little better to do than bicker amongst themselves, have affairs left and right, and squish presumptous mortals? Are the gods a horde of blood-thirsty beings who must be placated with human sacrifice? Is there but one God, and is he something to fear? Or are there legions of spirits and minor demons (not necessarily evil demons) that are embodiments of nature?

Re: multi-age world

#25

2. On the PCs... oh come on its a fantasy teleportation, advanced ships, luck or even flight, but mostly its daring.

Well okay. If there is fantasy teleportation, why aren't other people traveling to and from? So if more than one person can do this, people will move back and forth. Limit it to the ubermage of the planet? Okay, so the uber mage will only transport those with a PC halo over their head? AAANNNKKKKK There is a total lack of versimlitude.

A gate system might exist, but what is stopping others from finding keys, figuring out how to dial, or trying it on the right night of the year? If advanced ships exist, then anyone can travel. The same with flight.

Luck, well luck will only get you so far. Sure you might survive one storm tossed transocean crossing. luck might serve up the return trip. After that, it starts becoming a hackney plot device and very unworthy?

The reason I bring this up is that you are implying that there will be travel between the "zones" by the PCs. And it sounds like a somewhat common occurance in the campaign. So you need to come up with a usable mechanism. If there is not really going to be any travel, then why flesh out the other continent if there is no contact and really no way to cross.

There is another alternate
I mean, you could have the PCs go out to sea and hit a "time storm", throwing them into these other times and places. (Maybe they have a magic mcguffin that draws the storms to them....). You get away from the sticky continuity issues, and have paradox free time travel. That way you can have your para-romans, then travel to the feudal-zone, then bop into the way back and go to para-mesopetamians or uptime to the para-mayans?

Re: multi-age world

#26

He'll understand my point in a while anyway.Â :penguin:

I'll agree with this one. After messing with it for a bit, the advice will start to make more sense. the world's ideas are too abstract at this point.

Re: multi-age world

#27

To moon

Ok how about this: The PCs are hired by an ingenios ship designer who considered mad that wants sail around the world to descover mysterious lands that might exist. If the PCs are reluctant, then bankrupt them, make them slaves ect. The ship travels around the world, finding the different continent and the PCs are involved in various quests or can stay in the continent for a while.

OR

They meet with the scrying guild who tell them that they have discovered a civilisation(s) that are more advanced than their own and will invade/ send out people to search for new land. The Scrying guild then tell the PCs about a portal that other guilds have made, that can transport the PCs to the other continent, so that they can sabatoge the civilisation attemps to invade the PCs homeland. Later they can use the portal again and again.

Re: multi-age world

#28

Better: If the captain wants to sail, let the PCs know that this way is the adventure. If they are not motivated, they don't have to adventure. Their character's grow old waiting for the next opportunity to adventure.

The Scrying group: I have a suggestion for you... http://www.strolen.com/content.php?node=1493

Of course, how powerful with this scrying group be in your culture.