Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

1. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #1

   SSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
   
   You alone?
   
   Good.
   
   As I write this she is still churning out different versions.
   
   http://kate.rpgcitadel.com/strolen/st05/day/
   
   Link through the set of themes is in the left column.
   
   

   Ok. I got a paper bag and breathed in it awhile. I waited for the tingly sensation to subside and now I will try to make a few comments.
   
   AWESOME!
   
   Those little extras like the icons in the text that match the header, sweet. The sword on the bottom, awesome. Opera doesn't like to put the top half all the way to the bottom though. Still looks good. I just thought it was a cool column footer till I scrolled down, then opened it in IE.
   
   I almost had to get the paper bag out for the document weight, it is a little bigger than I was expecting. You know how anal I am about file size so it will take some getting used to. For a text resource size, that is still pretty heavy though, 150kb. I will need to make a lightweight version for my 56k'rs for sure but I am still not 100% comfortable with it for normal browsing. Maybe I need to get over it though and suck it up. Won't change a thing for the time being because I love it. Figure out the logistics of it all later! SInce you said almost all the graphics are CSS it will be relatively easy to mess around with that without much trouble. So I will build away (when I get the all clear).
   
   Could you put a zip file up of the html once you are done. It reads ugly when trying to snag it.
   
   Only critique is that the title text doesn't seem crisp and it is not easily readable. For some reason my eyes are forced to study it when I try and read it, I just can't glance and catch what it is saying. It only gets worse on the other versions. The border color seems choppy, not the shape, but the coloring itslef seems to get bleedover and pixelated or something.
   
   Midnight, I think still too dark. I think if you took storm level of darkness and put it there (with a greenish/emerald? hue) it would be much nicer. But a little tweak is needed in my opinion...although I like the idea of the lightning bugs/ light faeries/ accidental renderings that I see.
   
   Just let me know when they are finalized so I can start messing with them.
   
   I really like them. Awesome Job!!!
   
   (haven't seen sunset yet at this point, just to let you know what I have seen so far)
   
   Going to put them at the mercy of my fellow administrators for their opinions.
   
   Thanks a million Kate!!!
   

   
   
   Give me your honest no holds barred comments
   
   My biggest problem is the download size. Do most people have broadband nowadays that I shouldn't worry about it? Am I being too anal about it?

2. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #2

   I don't have broadband, and it loads fine.
   
   MY HONEST OPINION:
   I love it, all except for... That damn fruity castle in the corner. What the hell? I mean seriously. It really just looks silly.

3. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #3

   Really that bad? Why? Old one better? Don't like castles? Besides food groups, why does it bother you so?
   
   Give me something I can give her as constructive criticism.

4. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #4

   I dunno', it's just stereotypical and boring, and kind of "fairy princess Celtic magic"-esque. It just doesn't really say anything to me about the creativity or innovativeness (is that word?) of this internet community.
   
   And, it's fruity.
   
   I don't like the old one, either, and that dragon looks like a winged camel.

5. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #5

   While I like the old castle and sepia format (dislike the dragon on the right hand side), I think the new mast head is cool. I like the fact that there are several images of the castle that we can shift around for seasonal effects. I like the basics. (I like the sepia background a great deal. It does make a nice continuity between version 1 and version 2.) Even with variable colors for the site, it is still pretty. Graphically, two thumbs up.
   
   The size is a small concern for me. I think it is doable for most users. It will take a while for it to load (relatively speaking) but okay. There needs to be a really lite version of the interface for those of us on mobile machines (PDA and the wireless network at work) and a light version for those with a crummy connections (AOL anyone?). Maybe if there were options.. Or an initial page for the uncookied that selects the "level" of interface?
   
   For all my whine about that, it might be a non issue. To be honest the size is not that scary a thing. Even if you embrace the heavy version and don't have light versions, it is still quite workable, even for high lag low speed connections. Just it will be less "good" for people with said connections.

6. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #6

   A camel with wings. ;)
   
   That one wasn't may favorite either, which is why I put in the other dragon on V2.0.
   
   The citadel sort of implies some kind of fortress, so we are already stuck with the cliche by name.
   
   I understand your points though. I personally like the design. Have you seen the winter one yet. Sweet.
   
   Not sure what kind of graphic/design would imply our creativeness though....

7. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #7

   I echo CPs comments. I am a CP clone.
   
   But the fairy tale castle is serviceable and nothing we should torment Kate about... Or is it? Personally I think a nighttime silhouette of Hogwarts would be much nicer, inspite of its Harry Potter origins :)
   
   http://www.hogwarts-gallery.org/hogwartsgallery/galleries/Films/MOV_YR1PPSS/z_psss_film_13.jpg
   
   Okay... Perhaps Hogwarts is a bit too sugar sweet and romantic =P

8. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #8

   Ok. Here are my intentions.
   
   The format will be solid. I am going to do my things to it to make it useable. That will entail much CSS rewriting and reformating of many of the tables. By the time I am done with it the graphics will be the only thing that is the same.
   
   Once I have this solid template and we make the move to V2.0 we can reevaluate the graphics. I can give Kate the template format and she can unleash her arsenol.
   
   I think the big picture is that we are fairly serious about our stuff. We are not a kiddie site per se and therefore do not want the look that make it seem like a happy shiny place.
   
   So is the mood darker? More Evil. If you look at Kate's stuff, she is a bloody devil worshipper (not really) so she can villify the place if you want. What kind of mood do you want to set? You can have specific ideas. Is the dragon that is on our web award more appealing? What?
   
   If we want to ask her for something, we need to be fairly specific. Take a look through her site, grab some ideas you like from there. Shoot some ideas of different web designs, anything. Hogwarts notwithstanding. http://kate.rpgcitadel.com/
   
   I like the design, but I also see where you are coming from. If we want it changed, we have to know what we want it changed into.

9. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

   #9

   OK, I wrote Kate and told her you hated it. I gave her your email and home address and I think she now knows your neighbor and any pets that you have.
   
   Since the castle was the big kicker and kindly asked her if she would see if she has anything else in her arsenal that might work as a filler. I asked for something unique or possibly unusual to match the thing we got going for content. Unusual/unique graphic for unusual/unique content I guess is the only kind of help I could give her.
   
   If she can't think of anything it will be on us to come up with an idea and I am sure she will be happy to try and help us out.
   
   In the meantime, I am going to finish porting over the themes she already sent because I still like them.

10. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #10

    FUCK HARRY POTTER!
    
    I don't know if we necessarily want "sinister" or "evil", leave that to Evil D20 and all those sites... But something more... Imposing and mighty, I guess, would suit me. ;)

11. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #11

    I'd actually prefer 2D art, but that is just me. And CP... You did read the last comment about HP did you not? =P
    
    *Puts the tea water on in anticipation of a furious Kate come to break his bones*
    
    Most of her stuff and themes are awesome. It is the goody-good kid romance castle that is aching. It IS good, but it... It is like using a cute Donald Duck sign on the entry of the local licquor store... =P
    
    Me? I like Citadels. I think a Citadel is proper, because the site is names "Strolen's Citadel". But I' d prefer something suiting, so if creating a Citadel both cool and fitting is impossible, we should settle for something else.
    
    I do not think "evil" is the right choice. I'd rather see a graphic of a sturdy construction than any undead or demons.

12. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #12

    Hallo, new Citadel look! On to the points in order of decreasing certainity:
    
    Body: I think we can all agree the main part of the page - it looks great, very readable and gentle to the eye, prepared for the massive amounts of text we produce, in any theme. Yay!
    
    This is where the substance of the site - ideas - will be, so it is important to have this part solid. Whatever happens upwards, a pink bunny during the Easter holidays, the page itself will be a joy to read. That's what counts.
    
    
    Themes: Cool. :)
    
    
    Size: Browsing from home with my very slow connection, it loaded fine. Could try a really large page as some are.
    
    Side note: There has to be a light version.
    
    
    Header: This is where our problems lie.
    
    Login stuff and assorted decorations: OK
    
    Title: font okey, but looses its clarity in some themes (parchment and fall, looks strange in winter). Also would change to "Read. Post. Play."
    
    Main image: the hardest point. Well, it is a castle... nice, but is it The Citadel? Looking seriously at the current castle+dragon, I find I have subconsciously learned to ignore it.
    
    Mood... perhaps a bit mystery? Like, anything could be found in this place, which is so true? I have no idea how to create the impression of creativity and inovativeness. Yes, we have fun at this and are serious at the same time. Now just to make a picture out of it...

13. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #13

    On the other stuff... well... I'm not really sure what the solution would be other than starting over. If it's not right, it's not right and I understand that. But, some clue as to what isn't right would be really helpful. Can't say I'm getting 'fairy princess' from it myself *laugh* I mean, the criticism isn't exactly constructive if there's dead silence when you ask them what *would* be right. Even still, if the castle is too cliche or the design not sophisticated there needs to be an answer as to why they feel that way. They don't need to come up with what would be right, but at least tell me where they think it's gone wrong. I mean, and this is where the mind just halts, what makes a castle fantasy cliche and a dragon not? Or anything else that could visually identify the site as being focused on fantasy content? If the title image is going to represent a genre and let people know "this is a fantasy site" on their first visit... how does one avoid an image that someone would consider 'cliche'? If that's the crit then the same could be said for anything I do that would visually identify the site. So, what does one do?
    
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not irrate or anything *laugh* I deal with much harsher criticism on a daily basis ;) And the 'happy shiney' thing gave me, and my gentleman, a real good giggle! I'm lookin' for a solution. What's got me a bit stumped is that they didn't say this *before*. The design hasn't really changed from then to now, save a few shiney bits and a size reduction of the title graphics. If you strip out the jewelled club images is it then not too 'fairy princess' or was it that way before and they just didn't say? *laugh* I need something to go on, especially when one of them thought the RPG design was too dark and goth' looking. I don't think that design is either especially dark or gothy and I doubt they want demons, gore and no-skin-man either hehehe
    
    If you want uniformity between designs, something that keeps the site basically the same across themes, I think we need to just nod at the fact that this design will get binned. There's either a way to alter it or it is just wrong... and I need to know which it is in their minds. It's not like I'm gonna pitch a tizzy if they say it is just wrong. Time is a factor an' tip-toeing around the point is only going to prolong the process. Tell them to be rude *laugh* blunt! It sounds like they'd like me to start over and I don't mind doing that. What I'd mind is going through half a dozen alterations before arriving at that same conclusion ;) That wouldn't make anyone happy and could set you back significantly and pointlessly.
    
    Just give me a game plan. Do I start over or do I alter? If the latter what needs altering? If it's the castle scene itself... then, realisticly speaking, we *are* starting over as the whole design is built on that. It only gets worse if I try to force something else into that space without rethinking everything.
    
    Let me know ;) And don't feel bad or embarrassed or any other such thing. This is how design work goes *laugh* Sometimes it just isn't right, so you go at it again. No biggie.
    
    -K

    
    
    Pretty much what I said. We need to come up with something or there is nothing she can do for us.

14. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #14

    The castle does seem rather Princess to me, so I share the sentiment of the good Captain and the old norwiegan.
    
    I like the more utilitarian appearance of the V1.0 castle, or something along those lines. More about the structure of towers and parapets and less about the pointed princess crayon towers. I like the crenellated tower, like the chess piece, or something that seems more...heavy.
    
    Hogwarts, especially the main hall and tower are good, but I can also think of some of the more impressive architecture from LotRs. Helm's Deep with it's singe tower and wall come to mind, while Minas Tirith (Gondor) minus the big rock wedge would be kinda cool.
    
    Evil - no
    Dark and brooding - no
    Heavy - yes

15. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #15

    Heavy is a good word!

16. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #16

    A testing page. I put it up for Kate for design thoughts for our nested comments.
    
    Not the best example and it is not finished yet, but it puts it together a little bit for you.
    
    (Yes, the chat will work, and yes you will post as me. That chat is the most unsecure piece of crap I have ever seen...shhh don't tell anybody)
    
    [link removed - unneeded know anyway]

17. Phase II - TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY

    #17

    OK, Admins...
    
    If I didn't make you an admin, you can't see this so just remind me. I will try and go through the list tomorrow to make sure.
    
    If you want to see the current working theme (with some bugs, feel free to point them out I may not know about them all) you can go to V2.0, go to your profile page (from the Citadel page, not the forum profile) and edit your preferences. If you are an admin you will see radion buttons for Kate's Theme "Day."
    
    You can take a look at it.
    
    I have to do bug checking for a good day, then I will port all the other themes over (simple process, maybe an hour, but don't want to do it till the first is solid).
    
    Any bugs/errors/formatting changes (yes, links are hard to see) you can come up with will get us there that much faster.
    
    Laters.

Administrators · All categories · Guildhall