Fantastic elemental forces *

#1

All right... For a project I'm working on, I'm trying to come up with elemental energies - as much to give a peculiar flavor to different magical paths beyond the standards set out by D&D and GURPS as anything else.

There're obviously the two best-known elemental sets... The Western one of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, and the Chinese one of Air, Fire, Water, Metal, and Wood. Either one could have energy polarities, or light/shadow, pitched in.

But, O Fellow Denizens of the Citadel, I ask this - what other kinds of unique elements can you come up with?

Fantastic elemental forces

#2

Not to be all "look at me" or anything, but I did some research regarding Tarot for Mister Smeed's little card tricks, and sort of came up with my own suits... They correspond to the elements, but they also have a sort of basic idea or concept that they stand for.

Sabres - Air - Freedom and nobility
Towers - Earth - Vigilance and solidity
Masks - Water - Deception and confuson
Torches - Fire - Violence and destruction
Stars - Light - Wisdom and knowledge
Vaults - Darkness - Seclusion and imprisonment

Not exactly new and original elements, but a world based on suits instead of elements could be interesting...

Fantastic elemental forces

#3

You could go caveman.

Nothingness - Air and everything you can't see
Everything - All you can see and touch
Darkness - That which is unknown. Counts stuff under the mountain and deep in the water as well as the night.

Concentrate on colors and let them categorize the elements

Red - fire
Blue - water
Green - trees and grass/nature
Brown - dirt and earth
White - clouds/air
Grey - metal and mountains

Found a cool Greek Site that I can't resist adding.

Earth is Dry and Cool
Water Cool and Moist
Air Moist and Warm
Fire Warm and Dry

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/AGEDE/images/elemsquare.gif
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/AGEDE/images/elemsquare.gif

In a seemingly unrelated discovery, Euclid, a Greek mathematician, proved that there are only five solid shapes that can be made from simple polygons (the triangle, square and hexagon). Plato, strongly influenced by this pure mathematical discovery, revised the four element theory with the proposition that there were five elements to the Universe (earth, water, air, fire and quintessence) in correspondence with the five regular solids.

Elements had a natural tendency to separate in space; fire moved outwards, away from the earth, and earth moved inwards, with air and water being intermediate. Thus, each of these five elements occupied a unique place in the heavens (earth elements were heavy and, therefore, low; fire elements were light and located up high).

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/images/PlatonicSolids.gif
http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/images/PlatonicSolids.gif

Fantastic elemental forces

#4

tetra the combination of the four elements of earth, wind, water and fire

Ice (bit of a ff fan) frezzing cold to the touch, incase in ice

energy or electricity massive balls of pure energy

crystal element of fragile but unbecoming strength

Fantastic elemental forces

#5

A more philosophical look at "elements"...

Binding force- "Wholeness", "holding-together", the element which causes things to be whole, to stick together, to combine, to stay in one place.

Deconstructing force- "Partiality", "falling-away", the element which causes things to be partial, to fall into pieces or crumble, to split away from each other, to repel, and to move.

Increasing force- "Complexity", "extending-outward", the element which causes things to increase in size or number, to grow outward, to move outward (out of itself), to multiply, to enlarge.

Decreasing force- "Simplicity", "shrinking-inward", the element which causes thigns to decrease in size or number, to shrink, to move inward (into itself), to decrease exponentially, to diminish.

Now, I'm not sure how you would implement those, and they cross over in many places... But whatever.

Fantastic elemental forces

#6

A more philosophical look at "elements"...

Binding force- "Wholeness", "holding-together", the element which causes things to be whole, to stick together, to combine, to stay in one place.

Deconstructing force- "Partiality", "falling-away", the element which causes things to be partial, to fall into pieces or crumble, to split away from each other, to repel, and to move.

Increasing force- "Complexity", "extending-outward", the element which causes things to increase in size or number, to grow outward, to move outward (out of itself), to multiply, to enlarge.

Decreasing force- "Simplicity", "shrinking-inward", the element which causes thigns to decrease in size or number, to shrink, to move inward (into itself), to decrease exponentially, to diminish.

Now, I'm not sure how you would implement those, and they cross over in many places... But whatever.

...Y'know, that's a really unique idea. I like it. I may try to figure out how to implement the magic system based around this sort of thing.

Fantastic elemental forces

#7

Well, when I was imagining it, the image I had in my mind was this:

There's a bunch of grey dust. It suddenly flurries together into a grey cube, and it's cracks vanish (binding force). Cracks suddenly develop, and the whole thing crumbles to pieces (deconstructing force). The cube reforms. Now, it begins to grow and spawn smaller cubes and split itself off into a multitude of cubes (increasing force). Then, the cubes begin to shrink and diminish into themselves, some by pieces, others exponentially (decreasing force).

I have no idea how that helps, but...

Chinese Elemental Flow

#8

In traditional Chinese philosophy, natural phenomena can be classified into the Five Elements: wood, fire, earth, metal, and water. These elements were used for describing interactions and relationships between phenomena.

The doctrine of five phases describes both a generating cycle and an overcoming or restraining cycle of interactions between the phases. In the generating cycle, wood generates fire; fire generates earth; earth generates metal; metal generates water; water generates wood. In the overcoming cycle, wood overcomes earth; earth overcomes water; water overcomes fire; fire overcomes metal; metal overcomes wood.

Wood
east, green or blue, Dragon, rain, spring, benevolence

Fire
south, red, Pheonix, heat, summer, propriety

Earth
center, yellow, caldron, wind, between seasons, good will

Metal
west, white, tiger, clear, autumn, righteousness

Water
north, black, tortise, cold, winter, knowledge

Interaction profile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Interactions_of_Five_Chinese_Elements.png#file

8 Cosmic Atoms or bagua

#9

The bagua "eight trigrams" is a fundamental philosophical concept in ancient China. It is an octagonal diagram with eight trigrams on each side. The concept of bagua is applied not only to Chinese Taoist thought and the I Ching, but is also used in other domains of Chinese culture, such as fengshui, martial arts , navigation, etc. If it works for an ancient and philophiocal culture it might work for you.

Qian (Heaven): FORCE
Northwest, grey/ white/ black, Benefactors

Dui (Marsh): OPEN
West, white, metal, family, autumn

Li (Fire): RADIANCE
south, red, fire, fame, summer

Zhen (Thunder): SHAKE
East , green, wood, ancestors, spring

Xun (Wind): GROUND
Southeast, purple, wood, wealth

Kan (Water):GORGE
North, Black, Water, Winter, Craft/ Career

Gen (Mountain): BOUND
Northeast, dark blue, - , earth, self cultivation

Kun (Earth) FIELD
Southwest, pink/ white, earth, marriage

Picture these images going around in a circle, with south and north, being south and north.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua_%28concept%29

Godai - Japanese Elements

#10

The five elements are, in ascending order of power, Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Void

Chi (Earth) represents the hard, solid objects of the world. The most basic example of Chi is in a stone. Stones are highly resistant to movement or change, as is anything heavily influenced by Chi. In people, the bones, muscles and tissues are represented by Chi. Emotionally, Chi is predominantly associated with stubbornness, stability, physicality, and gravity. In the mind, it is confidence; and emotionally it is a desire to have things remain as they are; a resistance to change. When under the influence of this chi mode or 'mood,' we are aware of our own physicality and sureness of action.

(Note: This is a separate concept from the energy-force, pronounced in Chinese as qi or ch'i and in Japanese as ki, )

Sui (water) represents the fluid, flowing, formless things in the world. Outside of the obvious example of rivers and the like, plants are also categorized under Sui, as they adapt to their environment, growing and changing according to the direction of the sun and the changing seasons. Blood and other bodily fluids are represented by Sui, as are mental or emotional tendencies towards adaptation and change. Sui can be associated with emotion, defensiveness, adaptability, flexibility, suppleness, and magnetism.

Hi (fire) represents the energetic, forceful, moving things in the world. Animals, particularly predators, capable of movement and full of forceful energy, are primary examples of Ka objects. Bodily, Ka represents our metabolism and body heat, and in the mental and emotional realms, it represents drive and passion. Ka can be associated with motivation, desire, intention, and an outgoing spirit.

Fu (Wind) represents those things that, even moreso than Sui objects, grow, expand, and enjoy freedom of movement. Aside from air, smoke, and the like, Fū can in some ways be best represented by the human mind. As we grow physically, we learn and expand mentally as well, in terms of our knowledge, our experiences, and our personalities. Fu represents breathing, and the internal processes associated with respiration. Mentally and emotionally, it represents an 'open-minded' attitude and carefree feeling. It can be associated with will, elusiveness, evasiveness, benevolence, compassion, wisdom, and electricity.

Ku (Void) represents those things beyond our everyday experience, particularly those things composed of pure energy. Atoms, their component particles, and atomic forces fall under this category, as do people in a higher state of consciousness. Bodily, Ku represents spirit, thought, and creative energy. It represents our ability to think and to communicate, as well as our creativity. It can also be associated with power, creativity, spontaneity, inventiveness, nuclear reactions.

Ku is of particular importance as the highest of the elements. In martial arts, particularly in fictional tales where the fighting discipline is blended with magic or the occult, one often invokes the power of the Void to connect to the quintessential creative energy of the world. A warrior properly attuned to the Void can sense his surrounding and act without thinking, and without using his physical senses.

Fantastic elemental forces

#11

The Four Forces are primal aspects of the Universe. They are symbolic, rather than manifest.

The Yod: The active principle. First Force

The He: The passive principle. Receptive Vessel

The Vau: The Child, that principle which is brought forth by the active and the passive.

These three form the first family. Everything can be broken down into triad families.

The 2nd He: This which rises above. The passage from one world/state to the next. That which rises up becomes the Yod of the next cycle.

Fantastic elemental forces

#12

Arth is the Interplay of the Five elements: Fire, Air, Earth, Water, Luminance (which is normally broken down into Light and Dark making six elements). Once you grasp the associations, making things for Arth are quite simple.

Light
* Associations: Passive, Positive, Submissive, LAW
* Law/Order-Stagnant (Things to stay the way they are right now)/ Law/Order-Dynamic (Things to become stable and stop chaos)
* Primary Gender: Female
* Element: Luminance/ Spirit- Light, links between things.
* Color: White and Lighter Greys, colors one shade off white.
* Symbol: Equilateral Triangle pointed right
* Profession Prime: Acolyte: Faithful. Desire for faith/ spirit
* Profession Sece': Archpriest: Control. Desire for dominance.
* Cards: Triangle/Temple, Priestess

Darkness
* Associations: Active, Negative, Dominant, CHAOS
* Chaos Dynamic (Desire for changes to happen)/ Chaos Stagnant (Changes to occur only along current lines. Things to change as they are changing right now.)
* Primary Gender: Male
* Element: Luminance- Darkness, magic and deception/illusion
* Color: Black and Darker Greys. Colors one shade off black.
* Symbol: Equilateral Triangle pointed left
* Profession Prime: Mage- worker of magic. Agent of change.
* Profession Sece': Thief and Actor, workers of mind/illusion.
* Cards: Staves/ Wands, Mage

Remember Light and Darkness are simply different sides of the same thing. They are seperate, yet one.

Earth
* Associations: Passive, Negative, Dominant, LAW
* Doer/ Leader / Protector (Aids/ Helps/ Defends those in need)
* Primary Gender: Male
* Element: Metal and Rock, Craft shops
* Color: Brown/ Greys/ Metallics
* Symbol: Equilateral triangle point down with a horizontal slash halfway through.
* Profession Prime: Merchantile/ Transactionsmiths
* Profession Sece': Crafter- Excellence in their craft
* Cards: Shield/ Jewel, King

Air
* Associations: Active, Negative, Submissive, CHAOS
* Thinker (Maker of Knowledge- Gain Wisdom)/ Inventor/ Teacher (User of knowledge and wisdom)
* Primary Gender: Female
* Element: Wind/ Cloud/ Weather Libraries/ Schools
* Color: Blue, White, Silver
* Symbol: Equilateral triangle point up with a horizontal slash halfway through.
* Profession Prime: Teacher - Vessel of knowledge
* Profession Sece': Writer/ Scribe - Recoder of knowledge
* Cards: Disks/ Wheels, Queen

Fire
* Associations: Active, Positive, Dominant, CHAOS
* Leaders- (Foresight and charisma. Promotes growth)/ Destroyers (Those who lead people down the wrong path. Promotes destruction, which allows for future growth.)
* Primary Gender: Male
* Element: Fire/ Lightning/ Smoke The Wilds
* Color: Red and yellow, smacks of green
* Symbol: Equilateral triangle point up.
* Profession Prime: Travellers and Wardens (those that live in the wilds)
* Profession Sece': Farmers, Trappers, Loggers (those that use the wilds)
* Cards: Trees/ Swords, Knight

Water
* Associations: Passive, Positive, Submissive, LAW
* Feeling, Caring, Mental balance, Love (All positive or controlled emotions)/ Lover. Passions, Drives, and all emotions imbalanced, out of control, and all negative emotions.
* Primary Gender: Female
* Element: Water, Oceans, Sailing, Healing
* Color: Blue Greens (tiny smacks of pink/red)
* Symbol: Equilateral triangle point down.
* Profession Prime: Art, Artists, Producers of Beauty
* Profession Sece': Courtisan, people who help people, healers, skills and edication to do so.
* Cards: Heart, Rainbow, Princess

Fantastic elemental forces

#13

Thyal (The Green): All that is growing and alive. All plants animals and related things. It is that of nurturing.
Creating and Growing/ Farming.

Kachan (The Stone - Grey): All that is stable. Tangibly this is mostly the solid inanimate/ stones, metal, and soil. This is the element of The Foundation and resistance against the other forces. When The Stone is finally gone, there will be no place left for The Green and The Storm to be.
Builder/ Preserver

Zhoorr (Storm- Blue and White): All that is in motion: This is the air and the water. These things are in motion, eroding the solid, feeding the green, being the origin of all things (from that which is in motion).
Chaos, spuring growth and change.

Aural (The Spirit, things unseeen) - Yellow): These are all the thoughts ideas and feelings in the world. This is where the spirits are, the balance of The Stones. This is the place where things that will be are ... they move from The Aural through the Thayl and Zhoor to the KaChan.

Thayl
Aural KaChan
Zhoorr

Fantastic elemental forces

#14

Holy mother of Chaos, Moonhunter. *boggle*

...I fear if your awareness ever loses self-containment someday. The world would drown beneath ideas and information.

Fantastic elemental forces

#15

Moon is a good thread killer. ;)

He can barrage the thread leaving nothing else to be said.

:)

I mean that in a good way.

Fantastic elemental forces

#16

Well.... This is a topic I am somewhat..... familiar with. It is like asking CP about H.P. Lovecraft, or Strolen about Code, or Monument about D&D 2e. I have a couple more, but they are pretty esoteric.... even for me. Most societies have an elemental system, based upon opposing or cycling cosmic forces that use material symbolism as a symbolic aid.

Most European (and African) systems use a cross mixture of active and passive crossed with positive (birth/ growth/ increase) and negative (death/ reduction). The actual elements change, but the matrix stays basically the same. They are often bound together by spirit/ or ether, where the matrix is embedded. Of course, most of these systems have the same root system from Pre-Egyptian times.

Asian and pacific systems are mostly based on the cyclic flow of cosmic forces. The Chinese Bagua seems the dominant root system, but the Japanese system seems to be a cross between the Euro/ Western Model and the Bagua.

(It should be noted that The Five western Elements and the cycle of elements are complimentry. )

Native American (North) seem to be similar to the Japanese... a cross between the Western and Eastern model.. opposing forces that balance each other in a cyclic dance.

Native American (South) seem to have more in common with the I Ching or 64 paths of cosmic forces than any other elemental system. However our understanding is fairly incomplete, as the Spanish made sure to destroy most religious/ magical texts.

Fantastic elemental forces

#17

I Have been experimenting with elements for a while now, but I always inevitably go back to the Western Four: Air, Fire, Water, and Earth, mostly due to ties to my close ties with D&D.

My Most recent Ideas are actually not working well... Yet

I've tried to create a "Scientiffically correct" system, in which magic utilizes the strong/weak nuclear forces, electromagnetism and gravity. I still need to refine it, and I'm not liking the feel too much, but if you can and want to use it, I'd be glad to help.

Fantastic elemental forces

#18

I don't know if this is significantly different from the other system I gave, so I'm not going to really flesh it out, but...

-Rising energy (pulls up- air)
-Descending energy (pulls down- water)
-Central energy (keeps still, keeps together- earth, stone)
-Turning energy (constant motion- can't think of a good example)
-Split energy (when rising or descending pulls on central, it creates split- fire is an example of this)

Fantastic elemental forces

#19

One of the most useful ways to think of new elements is to look at the kind of spells that have been thought up.

Building on the western four earth, fire, wind, and water, there are actually a lot of ideas that can be played around with.

Life and Death are elements that are rarely mentioned, however they are fundimentally powerful.

Spirit for another. Spirit can take many forms. It could be considered similar to life and death, but it could also be the principal foundation for mind control and compulsion, and any other mind effecting spells. Also it might be similar in nature to magic, and be the fundimental power involved with antimagic fields and magic enhancing powers. Spirit could also be the thread that allows for sight into the future.

Luck. Luck usually gets overlooked as an element because people do not see how it can be used in a spell or ability, however, even if that were true, it would still be a fundimental element, primary in all things.

Chaos and Order. These could be considered the elemental equivalents to Luck, but they don't have to be. Order could be used for divination (giving one the ability to see the natural order of the world before it happens) or any other form of increased mental function, allowing one's mind to organize itself more efficiently. Chaos is used a lot in literature, allowing the improbable to happen.

Time is a good one. Everybody can see how time is a fundamental element of the world, as well as its usefullness in practical situations.

If you wanted to, you could say that the five senses were the elements of the world. After all, what exists without the fundimental elements of sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell.
Air has sound and touch, but not smell, taste or sight.
Fire has sight, and touch, but not smell, taste or sound.

These are just a few suggestions off of the top of my head, hence the reason that they are not organized or written out very well. I suggest that you play around with them to see what works for you.

-Nobody

Fantastic elemental forces

#20

CP the only thing that I could think of would be life, or a storm. storm would be a combination of the four others, ie where they meet and overlap. And by storm im thiking tornado, where the very ground gets pulled up into the clouds and sky.

Fantastic elemental forces

#21

You could go for a very human approach and base elements on feelings:

Pleasure:
Mentally - Joy, happiness, delight, contentment.
Physically - Lust, sensation.

Pain:
Mentally - Sorrow, anxiety, sadness.
Physically - Agony, hurt.

Wrath:
Mentally - Anger, hate, revulsion.
Physically - Violence, pressure.

Tranquility:
Mentally - Calmness, inner peace.
Physically - Steadiness, relaxation.

The Halan

#22

Journey (Pure Orange)
"The journey of a 1000 ri (each one 1000 paces) starts with one single step." Keys: Motion, Path/ Road, Destination, Arrow (triangle) or Doorway/Archway.
Life is a journey, through time, matter, and spirit. The first and foremost element. It seems to be rushing ahead of all others, but in actuality it is pushing the others along.

Patience (Pure Green)
"The perfect moment makes all the difference"
Keys: Passive, Time, Change (not paradoxical, things change all the time, usually in a rythm), Sphere or Coil (time as viewed from the future towards the past - time goes in a circle and travels forward creating a spring).

Peace (Orange and Green Mottle)
"Like the lake, serene and smooth."
Keys: Calm, Balance, Dance, Water of the Lake or Rain, Peace's Glyph.
Without peace there would be no patience on the journey.

Strength (Orange and Purple Mottle)
"The Will to act will forge the vessel."
Keys: Will, Body, Crafts, Fire of the Forge, Strength's Glyph
Without strength to act upon wisdom there would be no journey.

Wisdom (Pure Purple)
"Life is the journey, not the destination."
Keys: Active, Searching, Solids (Wisdom comes from looking at the solid world and seeing beyond it), Square (for the four sided life Truthfulness, Austerity, Mercy, and Cleanliness -physical/ mental/ spiritual)

And all things come from Spirit (Yellow, Red, and Blue)
Key: The unseen, unfelt, unknown except by inference. Puzzles and interlocking rings. The prime mover, yet the greatest resistance to motion. Water without a vessel. A ball floating in air. Arrow without a bow.

Learning (Purple and Green Mottle)
This is not an elemental force. It is a mental construct, anchoring the elemental forces to the material world... the touchstone between spirit and matter/ body... the mind.

Inspired by a new martial arts T-shirt Line. I added the concepts and quotes.