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BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (Oops...too late)
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2 parts
#411) Plots - Items - NPCs - Locations - Dungeons - Lifeforms - Systems - Societies - Articles Why is this in this order instead of by alpha?
2) Aren't you glad it is terribly boring here today? I have not only done all the work that presented itself, all the work I am supposed to do, but I have tested more things than I had before.
We need more bored members to tigertest the new site.
Read! Post! Run! Just do it! Yes life is just a Nike commercial! Read! Post! Run! Just do it! Yes life is just a Nike commercial! Read! Post! Run! Just do it! Yes life is just a Nike commercial! Read! Post! Run! Just do it! Yes life is just a Nike commercial! Read! Post! Run! Just do it! Yes life is just a Nike commercial! Read! Post! Run! Just do it! Yes life is just a Nike commercial! -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#42On page http://www.rpgcitadel.com/content.php?page=114
Setting Building (3)
At Table (1)
Character (0)
Campaign (0)
Fiction (0)
Humor/ Editorial (0)
Resource (0)
Rules and Advice (0)
Other Gaming (0)
Scenerio (0)
Why is this no longer in alpha order? -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#43What are you talking about.
:?:
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Re: 2 parts
#441) Plots - Items - NPCs - Locations - Dungeons - Lifeforms - Systems - Societies - Articles Why is this in this order instead of by alpha?
Webmaster's whim?!
2) Aren't you glad it is terribly boring here today? I have not only done all the work that presented itself, all the work I am supposed to do, but I have tested more things than I had before.
We need more bored members to tigertest the new site.
Yes, I am happy. You gave me a couple good chunks to mess with that will make it much bette. Yes, we need a Tiger Team of entomologists. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#45What are you talking about.
:?:
Earlier today, that list was in alpha order. Why did it change?
Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. Strolen is a genius. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#46
2) As for "Scrolls". The replies (not comments) should be similar to normal posts. That way we can just goto the scroll post and begin to make related items. If we don't you will have two qualities of posts in such threads: The first being full write ups, the second being shorter crapier posts.
Take the examples of the Societies thread, Given our vesion 2 structure of the scrolls. The first few posts would be of the second type. The later ones with actual descriptions of the groups, their motivations, and such, would be actual items. If the comment threads were in the same format as "real posts", we could improve the general quality of the scrolls by minimizing the number of scruff posts.
All right, I can work this and it probably makes more sense to me since I just split the submission format off so it is actually a pretty simple thing to do now.
So, if I take your meaning (and if not then this is my tangent) we have the main king submission. This is the List/Scroll starter. Societies for instance. It might contain a society, but the purpose for this initial post is to describe what this List/Scroll will hold.
Now we have other Full Submissions (FS) that fit nicely in this List/Scroll that are already inputted or that will be inputted. So, in the cae of Idea List/Scroll, the "Suggested Submissions" turn into Idea Scroll submissions and the entire post, to include stats, is pulled into the List/Scroll one after another. They will have a link in them that will allow you to visit the actual submission and comment on that specific submission.
After these full submissions, there will still be the ability to do what we are doing now with the Idea List, smaller non-submission worthy ideas and descriptions.
After these are the normal comments/votes.
To add a main submission to the group, you still use the suggest submissions button on the bottom and it will be added.
Is that more or less what you are thinking?
To be honest, I am not sure. It sounds better that the existing format. When will it be ready to be tried? PM me... since this is my "feature"/ "bug" I want to work with it. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#4711) About Scrolls:
Actually the pages show more than I expected. I thought it would print out just the summary like the front page... then you could click it an expand it or click it and a new window opens with the post in it.
Front Page Stuff
12) Upon awaiting approval... approval from the Admins/ Mods? did I miss a memo? Do we really want this to be the top item on the menu? Should we not put it in the left side links with Idea Scrolls... Things waiting approval
13) Challanging: An asthethetic issue. I really do not think we should be putting up the dirty laundry as the first or so item on the page. Can we put it in the left side menu under idea scrolls.
13b) How many times can you vote on keeping it or canning it? The vote line does not go away once you vote. Fix please.
14) Recent Submissions: I am torn. It would be nice to have them on the front page. However, some can be such drek before they are deleted or voted down. Again the recent posts might be a good side element (That wonderful left side menu under idea scroll) or much as they are... under the randoms. I think asthetically, we should put it under the randoms.
15) The Random selector should not just be grabbing things at random. It should grab one item, one npc, etc.
16) Encounters are ideas of the Plot nature. I liked some of those... where did they come from?
17) Speaking of that, the new category system. You can use the two component system or just one component (the item/ location/ plot, etc)
17b) So the Ideas Page might have its own subcategories (or the same old categories as the main page). You might want to rename them (plot ideas being encounters and so on).
18) Clicking on my User Online listing brings up all my posts. Is there anyway I can have those listed by type instead of just alpha order?
18b) Can I also have a PM or email this user feature when I click on the Online User? Of course the Squawk box eliminates some of the use of this... but it is handy.
19) One the main navigation bar
Home - Articles - Dungeons - Items - Lifeforms - Locations - NPCs - Plots - Societies - Systems -
Settings? I know it is not open yet, but it just a thought it should be up there.
20) Tips:
a) Do we need categories for those?
b) Are these for gaming or for the site?
c) Do you want me to generate a few hundred
21) To posting ideas (encounters) and tips count towards EPs?
22) http://www.rpgcitadel.com/level.php
It should also have a listing explaining challanging, votes, etc.. just briefly... Sorry. More to write.
23) Images? Do we have a place to stash those? We use them for maps as well as art, Article Posts?
24) What about a music spot. Also an article place. Can we upload a file to a post?
thinking of some more... brb -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#4811) About Scrolls:
Actually the pages show more than I expected. I thought it would print out just the summary like the front page... then you could click it an expand it or click it and a new window opens with the post in it.
If it is going to be a scroll I vote for it being a scroll. I could change it so that it is a summary that expands to the full on a click automatically. Like the stat box that will collapse (my intention was to have that a user option whether they want the stat box visible by default or closed). We can decide what we like better.
12) Upon awaiting approval... approval from the Admins/ Mods? did I miss a memo? Do we really want this to be the top item on the menu? Should we not put it in the left side links with Idea Scrolls... Things waiting approval
This is an ADMIN only feature. Nobody else can see these. It is on top so we see it and we can immediately read it and pass our judgement.
13) Challanging: An asthethetic issue. I really do not think we should be putting up the dirty laundry as the first or so item on the page. Can we put it in the left side menu under idea scrolls.
This, again, ONLY shows up for those that are able to vote for the challenged. If you logout out, guests cannot see it and neither can anybody of a lower level. Only those that have the correct level can see it (can't remember what level that is right now). The intention was the same as above, to get people to view them and vote on them. Would suck to have things sitting challenged forever just because they didn't know they were there. In reality, these challenged shouldn't be there but a couple days (you can see their full status in the admin page, who voted what and their current vote totals) before they are either forced an edit or returned to a normal submission.
13b) How many times can you vote on keeping it or canning it? The vote line does not go away once you vote. Fix please.
True, I should fix that!
14) Recent Submissions: I am torn. It would be nice to have them on the front page. However, some can be such drek before they are deleted or voted down. Again the recent posts might be a good side element (That wonderful left side menu under idea scroll) or much as they are... under the randoms. I think asthetically, we should put it under the randoms.
Easy enough to change around. We can experiment a bit with that. Current order on index is
- Awaiting Approval (only if admin)
- Challenged Submissions (only if level allows you to vote on them)
- Quest (when there is one active)
- Hall of Honour (when there is one or more active)
- Recent Submissions (last 5 I think currently, can be any number)
- Random Submissions (10 right now, any amount)
- Golden Submissions (Can't remember, but once we get a few this might be random as well)
Sort away on how you want that set-up.
15) The Random selector should not just be grabbing things at random. It should grab one item, one npc, etc.
We can debate on this. Easier on me with one query, bang. Otherwise I need a different query for every different type. I see your point though!
16) Encounters are ideas of the Plot nature. I liked some of those... where did they come from?
I think this will be a Plot Idea Scroll type thing. Encounters will disappear.
17) Speaking of that, the new category system. You can use the two component system or just one component (the item/ location/ plot, etc)
17b) So the Ideas Page might have its own subcategories (or the same old categories as the main page). You might want to rename them (plot ideas being encounters and so on).
I have those as a one category system to equal the simplicity of the ideas themselves. Still not sure what to do with those sections once and for all.
18) Clicking on my User Online listing brings up all my posts. Is there anyway I can have those listed by type instead of just alpha order?
You are right of course, will do! I think I can just add a "type" sort order to the sorting links and that will bring them up separated. Will figure out something to make that happen in an organized manner.
18b) Can I also have a PM or email this user feature when I click on the Online User? Of course the Squawk box eliminates some of the use of this... but it is handy.
Easy enough to add a link.
19) One the main navigation bar
Home - Articles - Dungeons - Items - Lifeforms - Locations - NPCs - Plots - Societies - Systems -
Settings? I know it is not open yet, but it just a thought it should be up there.
Rather not put it up till it is available.
20) Tips:
a) Do we need categories for those?
b) Are these for gaming or for the site?
c) Do you want me to generate a few hundred[\quote]
This link should go directly to Gamecraft.
I didn't think this one through too much, but I got the idea from somewhere, just don't remember where. We can leave it or dump it depending on how you think we could use it.
21) To posting ideas (encounters) and tips count towards EPs?
Yes, get like 1XP or something. Just a token XP for them and you don't gain anything else from it. If you don't, you will. Not sure if I coded that yet.
22) http://www.rpgcitadel.com/level.php
It should also have a listing explaining challanging, votes, etc.. just briefly... Sorry. More to write.
You are absolutely correct! I think I have stuff somewhere in the forum already for it.
23) Images? Do we have a place to stash those? We use them for maps as well as art, Article Posts?
On the Want list, but right near the top. I haven't looked too deep into the forum, but if that allows uploading pictures I will figure out a way to link to those pictures and make a thumbnail or embed the picture in the main Citadel.
I am sure there is another image gallery plugin, Coppermine for sure, that we can use with the forum.
24) What about a music spot. Also an article place. Can we upload a file to a post?
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
Living in Beta-ville
#4925) The challanged file section does not seem to post all of the files currently being challanged. Or is this a bug from the "not going away" function.
26) Thought: Could we have the navbar on the forum page? It just makes going from there to where I want one to three clicks less.
27) Google Search Bar? Our current search is ... okay.
28) On each page: Most Popular is really "Most Read"
29) comment: When we switch over, we really should go through the posts are make sure they are all appropriately categorized.
29a) Ad hoc or do we want to sign up for things?
30) Fonts.. if you are going to have a gallery and such.. you could import those fonts (and others) over. After all, they are still there....
Diversion.......
Nibblin on sponge cake
Watchin' the code back
All of those lurkers watching our toil
clicking my many keys
clicking the many links
Smell those circuits they're begininnin' to boil
chorus
Wastin' away again in Beta-ville
Searching for my lost key of ALT
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame
But I know, bugs are nobody's fault.
I will have some scroll comments later -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#5010/12 Another day... another set
31) Ideas should have their own ID#s so they can be linked or shoved into scolls, if needed.
32) The Ideas submission listing is no longer there.
33) The pulldown needs to be changed to the types of ideas (plot/ npc/ etc)
34) Reference
Click to expand/collapse.
»General Suggestions
»Plot Suggestions
»Item Suggestions
»NPC Suggestions
We need suggestions for the other types of posts. I will see what I can do for the text, if you will install their pulldowns. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#51I am sure there is another image gallery plugin, Coppermine for sure, that we can use with the forum.
I have used Coppermine before. I was not that impressed with it and judging from the sourceforge popularity ranking the "Gallery" Photo Gallery is more popular by far (36th place ranking while Coppermine has the 77th place (12th of October, 10 pm CET) . "Gallery" was also awarded a sourceforge project of the month award in October 2003. Coppermine has no such award.
A slick, intuitive web based photo gallery with authenticated users and privileged albums. Easy to install, configure and use. Photo management includes automatic thumbnails, resizing, rotation, etc. User privileges make this great for communities.
And it uses PHP... -
CP and others... this means you...
#52Come on people... beta testing is not a technical skill. It is simply going through the program and finding out what does not work OR does not make sense. It is mostly finding things that are missing or incomplete. If we make a list of what needs to be done, the nice technical people can spend the time to "fix it", rather than looking for fixes in the first place. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#53Apologies if this is already done, or even if it's already been covered in this thread - I don't have the time just now to read through and find out.
Just one little thing. Is it possible (e.g for items) to make an item that will appear in more than one category?
If I were to create a book which was full of magic in the form of music, could it be possible to make that item appear both in "Books and Scrolls" and "Art and Music" ?
perhaps if you made the category a checkbox instead of a pulldown menu thing?
Or alternatively, do you just put the item in the most appropriate place? -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#54Apologies if this is already done, or even if it's already been covered in this thread - I don't have the time just now to read through and find out.
A repeat is never a problem! Anything you find that is annoying or broken, spout away.
Just one little thing. Is it possible (e.g for items) to make an item that will appear in more than one category?
If I were to create a book which was full of magic in the form of music, could it be possible to make that item appear both in "Books and Scrolls" and "Art and Music" ?
This is, unfortunately, a limitation of the current system. Perhaps in V3.0. (expecting Moonhunter to spit water when he sees that :) )
perhaps if you made the category a checkbox instead of a pulldown menu thing?
I have no problem with that. Makes more sense actually since then you can see all the choices even if you don't read through the definitions of them. Gives you a better perspective of what is available as well. Good one! Category choice into a radio button it is.
Even if that wasn't what you intended, not sure the context you are talking in, but a great idea none-the-less.
Or alternatively, do you just put the item in the most appropriate place?
Yes :)
Thanks for taking a look! -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#55A slick, intuitive web based photo gallery with authenticated users and privileged albums. Easy to install, configure and use. Photo management includes automatic thumbnails, resizing, rotation, etc. User privileges make this great for communities.
No problem with Gallery either. Only reason I mentioned Coppermine is because the integration with smf (and therefore the site) is already completed so there is no learning curve on my end. Looks like Gallery is pretty feature riched so it looks good to me. Just might take a bit longer.
Just checked and looks like they have a beta smf integration that might work.
On the list. -
Re: Living in Beta-ville
#5625) The challanged file section does not seem to post all of the files currently being challanged. Or is this a bug from the "not going away" function.
Are you sure? I see 8 submissions in the admin panel, 8 submission on the challenged link, and 8 subs on the index.
26) Thought: Could we have the navbar on the forum page? It just makes going from there to where I want one to three clicks less.
Oh, sure that would make sense! That is on the want list vs. need...but the need list is getting smaller. :)
27) Google Search Bar? Our current search is ... okay.
Our current search is adequate. I know you want to narrow down the search, but what isn't the search doing for you that google will do? Search is a SUPER important feature and I need to improve this big time!
28) On each page: Most Popular is really "Most Read"
Changed it to Most Hits to maintain continuity to the right menu. Could change them both to Read though. Let me know on this one.
29) comment: When we switch over, we really should go through the posts are make sure they are all appropriately categorized.
29a) Ad hoc or do we want to sign up for things?
Either or. I am going to whip up a quick script for the right menu that will list all uncategorized submissions, so however you want to do that. Even if we all attack them at the same time we won't be duplicating and with the link it should be easy to find the ones that aren't done yet.
30) Fonts.. if you are going to have a gallery and such.. you could import those fonts (and others) over. After all, they are still there....
Yepper, that would work I am sure!
Diversion.......
Nibblin on sponge cake
Watchin' the code back
All of those lurkers watching our toil
clicking my many keys
clicking the many links
Smell those circuits they're begininnin' to boil
chorus
Wastin' away again in Beta-ville
Searching for my lost key of ALT
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame
But I know, bugs are nobody's fault.
I will have some scroll comments later
:) -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#57If a release is in beta, it might be worthwhile to wait and let the sourceforge team do their thing. And if you decide to code on it yourself, I am sure the sourceforge team would love to benefit from your efforts ;)
Open Source, Yay! -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#58So far:
Fixed spell check on main submission.
Added spell check to comments.
Added a BBcode conversion option when submitting.
Changed dropdown menu to radio selection buttons on submitting so it is easier to see options.
Added category links to forum
Spent a little time looking at picture galleries. http://gallery.menalto.com/ has taken the lead currently.
---Changeover----
Added "Uncategorized Submissions" to right menu options. Shows them ALL so prepare for a long page.
This weekend (probably Sunday) I will move over all submissions before X date. At this point I will let you know and it will be safe to start categorizing and adding, etc, as that will be the first _real_ move over. When the final day comes around I will move over everything after X and we will only have to categorize those.
We can still test and all that jazz, but if you screw up one of those submissions then you will have to grab it from V1.0 and manually bring it over.
I imagine I will write some kind of tutorial, kind of, to let you know about the admin features that may not be so intuitive. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#59Instead of wrapping the text at the bottom of the page, I end up with a really really wide screen when I open a page at the new site. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#60Comment: Buttons are better than pulldown, they are easier to use... especially given the format of the post page. They also let you look through.
MoonHunter wrote:
28 On each page: Most Popular is really "Most Read"
Changed it to Most Hits to maintain continuity to the right menu. Could change them both to Read though. Let me know on this one.
Most Hits please.
31) Comment rather than bug: The new font in the introduction and descriptions is ugly and large. Can it go back to the way it was?
32) Would like to hear others comments on this... on the submission's page... The order and positioning and blocking is ugly. I thought it would grow on me, but it hasn't. Can we try a new colum order. Instead of BB code/ submissions/ definitions/ suggestions can we try:
Submission stuff/ Definitions/ Sugestion/ BB code stuff (since we don't really need that, but only for people who want fancy posts).
33a) You could make that even easier: Now that we have buttons instead of pull down, you can simply put the definition next to button in the same table. If you keep the same width of colum, you can then have them wrap a bit and take up less vertical spacing. I know that makes two colums, stacked on a big wide column with two columns underneith. But.....
33b) Another option would be to click a name, rather than the button, and get the definition as a pop up.
33c) make it all one column, with the definitions in the same table column underneith the buttons, as an expandable menu (like the suggestions do). This cuts down one whole column and only pulls out the definitions if you want them.
33d) You could put the definitions in the same table/ column as the pull down suggestion menus.
34) The ideas do not scroll in any normal width. Maybe making them as "wide" as the submission/ definition dual column?
35) Under Scrolls on the right column, can we put Old Quests? That way we can reach them soon. Many of our quests will be of the "we want posts of this type" kind, like ("We want to see how Animals of the desert, or Neighborhoods for cities of all types, or City Images type)... rather than something big and important.
Actually the first quest I want is the theme of "Sky" These are lifeforms/ locations/ groups/ spells etc that are of the Sky. (We are lacking flying lifeforms, air born groups, ect (And if you want examples of air places, I have Mccafri's AirDock and the High Neighborhood). Sky should be added to the FreeText. We run this quest for two weeks and we get a whole bunch of posts of a type we normally don't get. (or that is the idea). While we are running this, we post up in the forum :Quest comming next month (so people can warm up to it).
36) Dungeon Submission page: Change the order/ Elements, then Environments It should always be Type/ environment when ever possible.
37) The "Add Submission page" is a pull down rather than a radio button. Do we even need this page?
38) Dungeon Category to "Place of Mystery? I know. I know. I pushed for a dungeon category, but not all dungeons are underground. Of course, we can use the gamer shorthand that it is all a dungeon.
And WTF does El dungeons of el fearo mean. How about
"Dungeons and other places of mystery to risk your life while adventurering in."
39) I like the fact the task bars change over to the category they are in.
40) What is up with this? There is only ONE dungeon post and it is a dummy holding place entry, but the listing shows:
Show All ( 1128 )
Location ( 10 )
Any (1)
Desert (0)
Forest/ Jungle (0)
Mountains (8)
Other (0)
Plains (0)
Swamp (1)
Tundra/ Arctic (0)
Underground (0)
Water (0)
Elements ( 10 )
Doors (2)
Ecology (0)
Puzzles (3)
Rooms/ Halls (4)
Why is the system showing all these?
Style (1)
Traps (0)
41) Increase the contrast of the scroll comment/ reply box. The slight change of color is poor. Just make it traditional white.
42) Do you know, if you nest a scroll post into a scroll, that you only get the first post of the scroll (not so bad) but there is no way to get to the rest of it (unless you search for it). This relates to why I wanted previews (the short summaries we have on the front page) as the post in the scroll, that would pop up if you clicked on it.
42a) So don't allow king/ top Scroll Posts to be put in posts OR make them previews (the short summaries we have on the front page) in other threads that will either expand out or pop up.
43) I think I can now verbalize and explain my issue with the current format of scrolls.
The external posts (external from the scroll, posts from elsewhere) entered on a scroll should appear in the scroll in the order it is entered. So if there are three replies, then someone enters another post, and two more replies. It would appear as
King-Scroll Header
Reply 1
Reply 2
Reply 3
External post 1
Repy 4
Reply 5
External post 2
This would make the "flow of the conversation" go easier in the scroll. Otherwise you would get a "disjointed conversation...
King-Scroll Header
External post 1 (which won't make too much sense until you read reply 3)
External post 2 (which won't make any sense until you read #5)
Replies 1 which have something to main post and nothing to external
Reply 2
Reply 3, which explains external post
Reply 4, which is inspired by the external post
Reply 5
This would make the continuity of the scroll make sense. Otherwise external posts are somewhat disjointed and seem "thrown in"
44) Comments on King/Scroll Header, should appear under the king/ scroll header, instead of at the bottom of the scroll. This makes them confusing, especially after a number of posts. Can we put them under the king post, like they are put under the respective replies?
45) You can't comment upon external posts in a scroll, except as replies. Unless we keep them in the "flow of conversation" they won't make any sense.
Now if you make external posts pop ups (after clicking the previews) you can see their existing comments, by scrolling down that screen.
or if you want real magic, you can add comments to the preview post showing ont he scroll. :)
46) This page - Add Submission could be added to the bottom of any Scroll Thread. Could it then automatically be added to the scroll or the info to do so autofilled?
47) Is it possible to change a reply in a thread to a post without doing the cut and paste? Lets say after the fact you realize this should be a real post on its own. And it will be out of order then.
47b) Is it possible to change its type??
47c) Are the replies in scrolls able to be different types of posts. Never mind answered this one... not yet.
47d) So if you are smart and are going to expand your species... you need to make your initial posts a scroll (or change it) and then add the society/group posts (for culture), item (equipment posts), systems posts (for various things), and locations for the items. Changing things to scrolls is good. What happens if you undo it? (Need to test this)
48) Can it be a power for people of a certain level to be able to eject a post and make it independent oist?
49) Can Replies and Comments have reference numbers Reply 1, reply 2, reply 3, since they don't have their own little url, we can reference them that way.
Read. Post. Play. (Edit all the crap) The life of a moderator!
Read. Post. Play. (Edit all the crap) The life of a moderator! -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#6131) Comment rather than bug: The new font in the introduction and descriptions is ugly and large. Can it go back to the way it was?
Yeah, something goofy happened with the formatting so I thought I fixed it. (I did in Opera but not in IE) So I went in again and just let it be the default. Not sure if it is fixed though, but it looks OK for me now.
32) Would like to hear others comments on this... on the submission's page... The order and positioning and blocking is ugly. I thought it would grow on me, but it hasn't. Can we try a new colum order. Instead of BB code/ submissions/ definitions/ suggestions can we try:
Submission stuff/ Definitions/ Sugestion/ BB code stuff (since we don't really need that, but only for people who want fancy posts).
33a) You could make that even easier: Now that we have buttons instead of pull down, you can simply put the definition next to button in the same table. If you keep the same width of colum, you can then have them wrap a bit and take up less vertical spacing. I know that makes two colums, stacked on a big wide column with two columns underneith. But.....
33b) Another option would be to click a name, rather than the button, and get the definition as a pop up.
33c) make it all one column, with the definitions in the same table column underneith the buttons, as an expandable menu (like the suggestions do). This cuts down one whole column and only pulls out the definitions if you want them.
33d) You could put the definitions in the same table/ column as the pull down suggestion menus.
34) The ideas do not scroll in any normal width. Maybe making them as "wide" as the submission/ definition dual column?
Tried to bring your suggestions together. Take a look and see if that is ok.
I made the html help a pop-up window near the spellcheck so it is still available. Took some more of your suggestions (saves me 2 queries doing it your way with the definitions with the radion buttons) and made the right menu a fixed width and took away its background.
35) Under Scrolls on the right column, can we put Old Quests? That way we can reach them soon. Many of our quests will be of the "we want posts of this type" kind, like ("We want to see how Animals of the desert, or Neighborhoods for cities of all types, or City Images type)... rather than something big and important.
I have a little work to do on the Quests. I want to track submissions with the quests, save a history of all quests (if you reuse an old quest I think it just rewrites it and doesn't keep it), then I can put the link to view past quests and then the ability to see all submissions associated with those quests.
Actually the first quest I want is the theme of "Sky" These are lifeforms/ locations/ groups/ spells etc that are of the Sky. (We are lacking flying lifeforms, air born groups, ect (And if you want examples of air places, I have Mccafri's AirDock and the High Neighborhood). Sky should be added to the FreeText. We run this quest for two weeks and we get a whole bunch of posts of a type we normally don't get. (or that is the idea). While we are running this, we post up in the forum :Quest comming next month (so people can warm up to it).
The quest will have to concentrate on a specific area at a time, but there is no reason why multiple quests can't be run at the same time (mental note, make sure that this is possible). Right now, though, you can choose only one category, but it can be a top category. Doesn't allow cross category quests.
36) Dungeon Submission page: Change the order/ Elements, then Environments It should always be Type/ environment when ever possible.
It does alphabetical, unless you want to change them all to do the reverse. I will look to see if there is an easier way to do it to make it turn out that way.
37) The "Add Submission page" is a pull down rather than a radio button. Do we even need this page?
When you add a submission, the type of submission you add defaults to the type of page you are browsing (like the search).. If you are viewing a submission or some other place that isn't directly associated to a specific category then there is no way to know what kind of submission you are wanting to input so it won't know what category choices to show you. This single page catches any "Add Submission" clicks that are coming from these places that aren't directly associated with a category.
I think that is what you are talking about.
38) Dungeon Category to "Place of Mystery? I know. I know. I pushed for a dungeon category, but not all dungeons are underground. Of course, we can use the gamer shorthand that it is all a dungeon.
Then I vote for scrapping the entire dungeon category and adding dungeon to the location category in that case. If you take away the Dungeon header then you lose all the association with traps and all that other dungeony crap. Will bend to your will on this one since I am still not a huge fan of the Dungeon section, not that we don't need something, just that it seems, I don't know????
And WTF does El dungeons of el fearo mean. How about
"Dungeons and other places of mystery to risk your life while adventurering in."
Hey, it got you to write a better description didn't it?
39) I like the fact the task bars change over to the category they are in.
I want to make it more obvious to make the connection between the main category and the sort order stick right out. Will see what Kate's theme does.
40) What is up with this? There is only ONE dungeon post and it is a dummy holding place entry, but the listing shows:
Show All ( 1128 )
Location ( 10 )
Any (1)
Desert (0)
Forest/ Jungle (0)
Mountains (8)
Other (0)
Plains (0)
Swamp (1)
Tundra/ Arctic (0)
Underground (0)
Water (0)
Elements ( 10 )
Doors (2)
Ecology (0)
Puzzles (3)
Rooms/ Halls (4)
Why is the system showing all these?
Style (1)
Traps (0)
That is when I found that something I did allowed for duplicate titles. Dungeons was my test bed so I added what you see there. Then, because of the duplicate titles, I had trouble deleting them so I just took them straight out of the database which bypassed the script that would update those numbers correctly. So, leftovers from my troubleshooting.
41) Increase the contrast of the scroll comment/ reply box. The slight change of color is poor. Just make it traditional white.
Done.
42) Do you know, if you nest a scroll post into a scroll, that you only get the first post of the scroll (not so bad) but there is no way to get to the rest of it (unless you search for it). This relates to why I wanted previews (the short summaries we have on the front page) as the post in the scroll, that would pop up if you clicked on it.
Ok, will get this and the rest in a bit. -
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#62To be clear
34) The ideas at the bottom of the page do not scroll in any normal width. Maybe making them as "wide" as the submission/ definition dual column? The box underneath them is as wide as the idea is long, as is the stuff at the bottom (telling us how long the server has been up).
Doesn't allow cross category quests.
You need to make it do that. Most quests will be one type, but some that had been discussed (like the one I wanted to do first) was a cross type quest. Why can't we base part of the structure as a scroll. Once you fix things to a "flow of conversation", it will be okay.
MoonHunter wrote:
And WTF does El dungeons of el fearo mean. How about
"Dungeons and other places of mystery to risk your life while adventurering in."
Hey, it got you to write a better description didn't it?
Shrugs. Okay.
And keep the dungeon category. My blurb actually works to expand the "place of mystery" component. Especially since we have the environments...
MoonHunter wrote:
37) The "Add Submission page" is a pull down rather than a radio button. Do we even need this page?
When you add a submission, the type of submission you add defaults to the type of page you are browsing (like the search).. If you are viewing a submission or some other place that isn't directly associated to a specific category then there is no way to know what kind of submission you are wanting to input so it won't know what category choices to show you. This single page catches any "Add Submission" clicks that are coming from these places that aren't directly associated with a category.
I think that is what you are talking about.
On the main page:
Home - Articles - Dungeons - Items - Lifeforms - Locations - NPCs - Plots
- Societies - Systems - Forum - Add Submission -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#63On the main page:
Home - Articles - Dungeons - Items - Lifeforms - Locations - NPCs - Plots
- Societies - Systems - Forum - Add Submission -
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#6450) Insert this text into the site:
In the top of each "section page" and in the Add Submission Page
( http://www.rpgcitadel.com/node.php?page_id= )
What text you ask?
http://www.strolen.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=36912#36912
51) Expanding Pulldown suggestions for Articles, Dungeons, Locations, Societies, Systems, and such. Create those pull downs... I will help you generate text. You all ready have general, plot, item, and NPC.
51b) Add link to better posts in the general suggestions, expanding pulldown. http://www.rpgcitadel.com/level.php#t1
52) Add the HTML usable in the expanding pull down.
Okay, so what have we not addressed and what #s of my reports have you not acted upon. #42-49 are mostly dealing with scrolls. I think they are the only thing not touched upon. -
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#6550) Insert this text into the site:
In the top of each "section page" and in the Add Submission Page
( http://www.rpgcitadel.com/node.php?page_id= )
What text you ask?
http://www.strolen.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=36912#36912
Very sweet. For your reference, all the description text is directly editable by any Admin on the admin page. This is where I do it. That place will update all the definitions that are shown wherever they end up.
Admin -> Edit Categories
Then click on whichever category title you want to update/change. Feel free to edit the text as you wish and/or edit their title.
Consider it updated though.
51) Expanding Pulldown suggestions for Articles, Dungeons, Locations, Societies, Systems, and such. Create those pull downs... I will help you generate text. You all ready have general, plot, item, and NPC.
Not so much for the Plot, but will do.
51b) Add link to better posts in the general suggestions, expanding pulldown. http://www.rpgcitadel.com/level.php#t1
Ahh, I see. Link better than adding a "Tips to Better Posts" expanding or is that too much?
52) Add the HTML usable in the expanding pull down.
That instead of the popup?
Okay, so what have we not addressed and what #s of my reports have you not acted upon. #42-49 are mostly dealing with scrolls. I think they are the only thing not touched upon.
I have it printed out with my notes and will work with it tomorrow and let you see the result. Want to try and get the Golden done today if I can.
One question about the Idea Scroll. Do we care how long it gets? I will try and make a link menu like on the level page that will zoom you to each of the posts instead of having to scroll through them all. Some of these might be a little big though, but with a menu of sorts it might be more bareable.
Comments. Your idea makes perfect sense, however, would it be better to allow comments on each main scroll submission? Each submission would pull in all their own comments and show them with it. Then any comment on any submission would remain with the submission if you viewed it solo and would still be available in the idea scroll.
The King can have its comments right next to it like you said and the Idea List stuff would just be at the bottom.
Replying thoughts.
1) It would work sort of like the reply does now, click on something like "Comment on this Submission" and it will allow the comment to be inputted directly on that specific submission. You would do it all on the same page.
2) "Comment on this Submission" would take you to the submission page of the one you want to comment on. Then comment/vote as normal. Then on that page there will be a prominant link back to the Idea Scroll it is associated with.
For idea scroll posts, there will always be a link back to the King submission. -
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#66MoonHunter wrote:
52) Add the HTML usable in the expanding pull down.
Strolen: That instead of the popup?
I must of missed that I will seach for the pop up now.
Strolen says: One question about the Idea Scroll. Do we care how long it gets? I will try and make a link menu like on the level page that will zoom you to each of the posts instead of having to scroll through them all. Some of these might be a little big though, but with a menu of sorts it might be more bareable.
Moonhunter Sayeth: Not really. We have scrolls (and other threads) that are pretty darn long. Can we limit it to fifteen posts per "page" (ten or twenty are also good? So we go down the 15 or so posts then click the page 2 button?
Strolen says: Comments. Your idea makes perfect sense, however, would it be better to allow comments on each main scroll submission? Each submission would pull in all their own comments and show them with it. Then any comment on any submission would remain with the submission if you viewed it solo and would still be available in the idea scroll.
Moonhunter Sayeth: It would work either way. It is mostly a matter of personal heuristics. I would like the comments to follow the post, but that could allow some posts to have two to five sets of comments that would not be mutually includable. So the posts should follow the post.
Strolen says: The King can have its comments right next to it like you said and the Idea List stuff would just be at the bottom.
Moonhunter Sayeth: OK. If I am visualizing this correctly that will be fine. We really need to have a post with the proper definitions for all the parts of the scrolls so we are not speaking apples and oranges.
Strolen says: 1) It would work sort of like the reply does now, click on something like "Comment on this Submission" and it will allow the comment to be inputted directly on that specific submission. You would do it all on the same page.
Moonhunter Sayeth: Yay!
Strolen says: 2) "Comment on this Submission" would take you to the submission page of the one you want to comment on. Then comment/vote as normal. Then on that page there will be a prominant link back to the Idea Scroll it is associated with.
Moonhunter Sayeth: yah! This will work and keep everything together.
Strolen says: For idea scroll posts, there will always be a link back to the King submission.
Moonhunter Sayeth: If this is automatic and easy to access, then "Yay!" -
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#67Surprised myself on how easy it was to switch around.
Take a look at it now, concentrating on flow. Assume that we figure out a way to nicely separate the posts so they don't run into each other.
You can reply to any comments using the reply link. I think it will be relatively easy to do the same type thing for the main submissions.
You can click on the submissions titles to go to that submission's solo page.
That is all I have done for now, not sure if I will get to messing with it a bit more. -
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#68Threw in a few submissions and poked around a bit. At first I didn't like the way that the categories are explained and the area to actually add the post is at the bottom of the page. It's growing on me now, but do you think we might be able to make the explanations collapsable, with the + and - symbols like on the AOL buddy list?
Yes, I am an AOLer please don't mock me.
I like the dual classification system for the submissions. -
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#69Nice touch.
It is a little overwhelming the way it is currently, huge chunk of text before you get anywhere...I think I liked the separation I had before, at least then you could ignore the definitions if you wanted to since they were all in a seperate column.
But the collapsable thing might work too.
Will look at that! -
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#7053) POSSIBLE FEATURE: for high ranking members. Thread Drift Flames. We can mark posts/ scrolls/ threads that have drifted far from their posted topic. one for slight thread drift, two for lots of thread drift, three for really far thread drift. (We have a lot of thread drift... just so you know)
54) "Help me" Click As part of the Submission Options, you can flag this so people will know you want help.
55) "Add to me" click As part of the Submission Options, you can flag this so people know you want people to put information in your option. Scrolls automatically have that, as they are built in "add" spaces.
56) Can you add "allows a dash and an appostorphe to the title. That way we could have something like Generic Magic Kingdom-3
57) HTML help as a button rather than a clicked link... it is an asthetics thing.
58) I thought I had added this to the System's focus. I was wrong. Sorry.
Societal/ Cultural: Pieces dealing with social structures and conventions, including laws, standards, and cultural codes.
58B) I though I had added this to NPC focus. I was wrong again. Sorry.
Domestic/ Craft: This is a character who focuses upon performing domestic task or other trade crafts. This includes servants, wine makers, and senchals.
59) Lifeforms.. submission (Maybe?)
Can we have a fill in
Full Description
Additional Information
60) Locations submissions (maybe?)
Can we have a fill in
Full Item Description
History
Magic/Cursed Properties if any
61) Plots
Plot Description
Secrets
Ways to go, expanding the scenario
61) Found one thing not acted upon
16) Encounters are ideas of the Plot nature.
I think this will be a Plot Idea Scroll type thing. Encounters will disappear.
62) Posts linked to scrolls should have a link to the scroll on their post. -
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#71Threw in a few submissions and poked around a bit. At first I didn't like the way that the categories are explained and the area to actually add the post is at the bottom of the page. It's growing on me now, but do you think we might be able to make the explanations collapsable, with the + and - symbols like on the AOL buddy list?
BAM!
Lets try this way out for a bit and see how it tickles us. Put them back on their own side of the _wall_ and made them collapseable.
Left that Main Category page with the definitions intertwined unless another decision is made. -
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#7253) POSSIBLE FEATURE: for high ranking members. Thread Drift Flames. We can mark posts/ scrolls/ threads that have drifted far from their posted topic. one for slight thread drift, two for lots of thread drift, three for really far thread drift. (We have a lot of thread drift... just so you know)
? for the forum or for actual submissions?
If for submissions, the negative voting is sort of a flag for off topic posts and I could enable a threshold for showing comments, say greater than -3 on the votes and it will show, get -4 then it doesn't show up anymore?
54) "Help me" Click As part of the Submission Options, you can flag this so people will know you want help.
From this idea I redefined the following.
In Work (viewable) = Same as hidden except anybody can see it in your profile. Using this is basically a "Help me with my submission" flag so expect some constructive criticism and or help when you use this one. Will show up in right column link "Help Me" listing.
Figured this could be those things where people actually want help on something and this will give them a way for it to be available, but won't show up in the normal listings.
Probably need a better name for it though...
(link not up yet)
55) "Add to me" click As part of the Submission Options, you can flag this so people know you want people to put information in your option. Scrolls automatically have that, as they are built in "add" spaces.
I think having the Idea List/Scroll option should handle this one. I updated the definition of the Idea Scroll check box on the main page.
56) Can you add "allows a dash and an appostorphe to the title. That way we could have something like Generic Magic Kingdom-3
Done
57) HTML help as a button rather than a clicked link... it is an asthetics thing.
Naah, added it to the right column. Liked that idea better. More consistant, know right where to go for all the help links now. I didn't like that link either!
58) I thought I had added this to the System's focus. I was wrong. Sorry.
Societal/ Cultural: Pieces dealing with social structures and conventions, including laws, standards, and cultural codes.
58B) I though I had added this to NPC focus. I was wrong again. Sorry.
Domestic/ Craft: This is a character who focuses upon performing domestic task or other trade crafts. This includes servants, wine makers, and senchals.
Done
59) Lifeforms.. submission (Maybe?)
Can we have a fill in
Full Description
Additional Information
Done
60) Locations submissions (maybe?)
Can we have a fill in
Full Item Description
History
Magic/Cursed Properties if any
Did ya miss the update for this one?
61) Plots
Plot Description
Secrets
Ways to go, expanding the scenario
Didn't like that last one really. Just put Expanding the Scenerio. Not sure I get the need for it.
61) Found one thing not acted upon
16) Encounters are ideas of the Plot nature.
I think this will be a Plot Idea Scroll type thing. Encounters will disappear.
Yeah, will simply remove that link for now and it will get fixed during the changeover...I think. ;)
62) Posts linked to scrolls should have a link to the scroll on their post.
Roger that, in work when I get to messing with the Idea Scrolls some more.
Didn't have that much time today but tomorrow family leaves and son is back in school so starts my "vacation" so will probably get to that then.
This also delayed the refresh of the post transfer so we could start categorizing. I want to get the Idea Scrolls working before I do that because we are going to lose all those experimental posts when I do that. So probably be in the next couple days that I do the refresh. -
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#73Like the new columns with the side pull downs. You are both right. It is much cleaner AND shorter... while still putting it right there.
re: 53
It was for submissions. I was thinking that a thread could still be good (highly rated) but have seriously drifted from the original posters intention. We have had people start a post for one thing, then we have unloaded advice and help that is useful to others. Highly rated, but not what is advertised. It was a semi-random thought....
And remember, more submissions are going to look and act a lot more like forum threads than our existing posts because of the new structure.
re: 54
No this is really something different entirely.
Your "working" solution is great if people PM you to check their profile and the thread. What if you don't know who to PM? Are you going to check a few hundred members who have logged on in the last day or so to see who has created a new "working" section that needs help? Nope, and I and pretty much everyone else is not either.
NOTE:Though the viewable working is a great thing if you want to start something and want help from certain members. Put it in your profile and invite some friends to help you fix it. Very useful. I am going to have so many of these it is going to be painful.
The Help Me (and this title is tenative) click is for people who want the community to "jump on this post". It is an "attention getting" click. It would make the "new post" the top of the "new submissions" pile or pop up at the top of the new page like challanges for high rated members.
We have had way, way too many posts that basically are "help me, this is my problem." Except for the occasional title, which we all know are misleading, we have no way to know, unless you search EVERY NEW POST, which are "asks for help". (And who besides anal old me does that every day?).
A mod might read a thread and click it, so other mods and admins and higher ranking members would be drawn to it.
Think of it as a "Look at this post" alert. Not just for bad posts, but for good ones that need attention of the right members.
re:55
Remember: scrolls are not just a list of related posts that are done by various people anymore. They are one of the primary ways for us to create themes in the data in our para-wiki environment. (We really need to come up with a better working vocabulary for this... because this structured and focused wiki-esk database is fairly unique). But anyways.
So, sure it is a scroll; but we have all seen that others "think" that certain scrolls or threads are "other peoples". They don't want to "mess with it" because it is "obvious" that "you know where you are going with it". This has happened to me with Arth and the supers thread, and to a couple of other peoples. Members don't think they should add to it... because it seems the writer is "going somewhere" or "has a vision" and they don't want to disrupt it.
This click signals not only is it "OK" but down right desirable/ required to add it. Now most scrolls will have this "green light" implied, if not "on". But others not so much.
Filling out a race's lifeform scroll with society/ technology/ magic components, A scroll can contain all those different types of posts, and still be the domain of the author (sure you can comment, but replying might not seem appropriate, until someone says.. "okay done," now what do you think (i.e signally the green light). (and see some of the examples posed below)
There are other threads, articles or such, where each post adds greatly to it. The Green Light would mean, "I, the author, really want you to add to it." Rather than the implied, it would be nice for you to comment on it that all our posts have... but really a ADD TO ME screamed at the top of its lungs.
This click, the Please Post here" or "Add to Me" could be for a scroll post or a regular post (could be an article or anything). It is a flag that people REALLY want you to add to the post thread. The result of clicking this? I am not sure. A little "post here" graphic? Appearance on a special list? This is the part I am a bit vague on.
RE: New Idea Scroll Text
Do not like it. Scrolls are more than just a "add something to this". Every post we have has that "add to it" component.
Take a scroll for a detailed race write up. You make it a scroll because this lifeform post will have system, location, and possibly even special item posts inserted in it. You might not want people to automatically add to it. (comment yes, reply... not as much).
Take a scroll post for a complex scenario, linking NPCs, Locations, and Items (and possibly more types) to the original plot scroll. These are not ones to just add to. Or the reason you are making it a scroll is not to add to it.
Take a large article. That needs to be a scroll type post, to keep all the article parts together.
Settings, until the setting section goes live, are going to be much like scrolls.. if not scrolls. (I think settings will be much like scrolls are now... except with different display characteristics... kind of like a scroll squared... a data web).
As you can see, all scrolls are not going to be wide collaborative topics.
Aside: Maybe we should stop calling them scrolls? Maybe Codex (codices) as they are "the binding together of many different/ loose pages". A codex is a way to bring together different things bound together by a theme.
Maybe the Green Light (ala #55) is now a scroll- an "add to this".
>>>>>>>>
Perhaps in the box where the Idea scroll check is now, we will have 3 or 4
Codex
Scroll/ Add to me flag
Help Me/ Give Post Attention!
and such... all with the Show usage definitions in the middle column.
>>>>>>>>>
63 sorry... I jsut can't leave things alone
In the Submissions option, instead of the write up, a collapsable menus a "Show Submissions types definitions"
63b) Freetext: Show freetext definitions collapsable menu.
Both 63 will reduce the amount of page-estate that you have to scroll through to get to entering an entry.
64) How do I get to my profile without clicking on my name from one of the submissions?
65 Did you know you can make several homepages? Should there be a cost or minimum level to make one of these?
66) make sure to save the encounters and slip them back into the ideas section... especially once you make the idea scroll. I thought that was the plan, but just in case. -
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#74Like the new columns with the side pull downs. You are both right. It is much cleaner AND shorter... while still putting it right there.
Cool!
re: 53
It was for submissions. I was thinking that a thread could still be good (highly rated) but have seriously drifted from the original posters intention. We have had people start a post for one thing, then we have unloaded advice and help that is useful to others. Highly rated, but not what is advertised. It was a semi-random thought....
And remember, more submissions are going to look and act a lot more like forum threads than our existing posts because of the new structure.
If it gets like this in the main site, it needs to be purged. Our tolerance should be VERY low for off topic conversations. We will have to figure out a procedure on dealing with that quickly and with extreme prejudice. Perhaps copy and pasting the 'bad' comments and putting them in the forum and then providing a link to the forum in the comment that spawned it saying "For further discussion see link" or something.
Post-Nazi will earn the title.
re: 54
No this is really something different entirely.
Your "working" solution is great if people PM you to check their profile and the thread. What if you don't know who to PM? Are you going to check a few hundred members who have logged on in the last day or so to see who has created a new "working" section that needs help? Nope, and I and pretty much everyone else is not either.
NOTE:Though the viewable working is a great thing if you want to start something and want help from certain members. Put it in your profile and invite some friends to help you fix it. Very useful. I am going to have so many of these it is going to be painful.
The Help Me (and this title is tenative) click is for people who want the community to "jump on this post". It is an "attention getting" click. It would make the "new post" the top of the "new submissions" pile or pop up at the top of the new page like challanges for high rated members.
We have had way, way too many posts that basically are "help me, this is my problem." Except for the occasional title, which we all know are misleading, we have no way to know, unless you search EVERY NEW POST, which are "asks for help". (And who besides anal old me does that every day?).
A mod might read a thread and click it, so other mods and admins and higher ranking members would be drawn to it.
Think of it as a "Look at this post" alert. Not just for bad posts, but for good ones that need attention of the right members.
My initial idea was not for these posts to be just viewable in the profile (which they still would be) but also providing a link in the right column that would bring up a list of all the submissions with the Help Me flag. So they want help, they mark In work viewable and all those posts with that flag will be shown via a right menu link. No hunting at all, just a click to show them all. They are still in the Profile as well though.
I don't like that. I also don't like the idea of a "Help Me" although I, at first, jumped on the idea but I have changed my mind. The "help me, this is my problem," posts should be in the forum, period. If they want active help on a submission then they need to ask for it in the forum. The main Citadel is for the ideas that are ready for critique or are being prepared for critique. The in-work is so that people can work on these ideas without having to throw them out to the world and allows them to mature in the Citadel format instead of somewhere else. They don't have to put them in a fully viewable forum and we don't have to look at unfinished submissions, they are able to work on them at their liesure.
Back to why I am anti-"help me, this is my problem." If we allow the help me's then any half-ass idea or concept will slowly creep into the main citadel, after all, we are encouraging it. Then, with these getting attention it will begin to be accepted that you can post crap because people will help you, and we will be obligated to because we allow it and that will become our daily headache. In the Citadel we are obligated to do something to them, can't just let them sit and rot because they continue to show up and take up space. In the forum we can help and if nothing happens with them the just float to the bottom and we let them disappear. The author can disappear and/or ignore them and nobody really cares. We tried. In the Citadel, just seems like bad mojo to let crappy or unfinished stuff to just sit there. Of course we can delete it, but the tolerance would be greater in the forum. After a month or two the author comes back to see his post, Citadel = Sorry gone. Forum, oh, there it is.
Maybe that is just my twisted perspective.
-aside-
The in-work, I was initially going to remove all the comments when they submit it, but I think that for creative flow and proper recognition to those that help, they should stay. The author can and should use the update block in the submission form to divide the comments from when it was in-work to when it was published. Then you can see the work put into it before and who was helping with it, if any.
This can be used for helping with ideas and the "Hey, can you read this and let me know before I post it" type thing. But I would much prefer that this was done in the forum where it is all more informal and they can go on tangents and such with them.
I could provide, for the in-work ones, a html->bbcode so they can do that and post it into the forums just how it will appear on the webpage. I am pretty sure this forum allows for tables so it could almost be exact.
Anyway, I am very much against using the Main Citadel as an accepted and encouraged "help me" area. I think all that needs to stay in the forums.
re:55
Remember: scrolls are not just a list of related posts that are done by various people anymore. They are one of the primary ways for us to create themes in the data in our para-wiki environment. (We really need to come up with a better working vocabulary for this... because this structured and focused wiki-esk database is fairly unique). But anyways.
So, sure it is a scroll; but we have all seen that others "think" that certain scrolls or threads are "other peoples". They don't want to "mess with it" because it is "obvious" that "you know where you are going with it". This has happened to me with Arth and the supers thread, and to a couple of other peoples. Members don't think they should add to it... because it seems the writer is "going somewhere" or "has a vision" and they don't want to disrupt it.
This click signals not only is it "OK" but down right desirable/ required to add it. Now most scrolls will have this "green light" implied, if not "on". But others not so much.
Filling out a race's lifeform scroll with society/ technology/ magic components, A scroll can contain all those different types of posts, and still be the domain of the author (sure you can comment, but replying might not seem appropriate, until someone says.. "okay done," now what do you think (i.e signally the green light). (and see some of the examples posed below)
There are other threads, articles or such, where each post adds greatly to it. The Green Light would mean, "I, the author, really want you to add to it." Rather than the implied, it would be nice for you to comment on it that all our posts have... but really a ADD TO ME screamed at the top of its lungs.
This click, the Please Post here" or "Add to Me" could be for a scroll post or a regular post (could be an article or anything). It is a flag that people REALLY want you to add to the post thread. The result of clicking this? I am not sure. A little "post here" graphic? Appearance on a special list? This is the part I am a bit vague on.
YES! I see the light and the blinders are off for this one.
I agree and I am certain I had this intention but it got lost during the build.
Will comment on the list of new options that you mentioned later on.
RE: New Idea Scroll Text
Do not like it. Scrolls are more than just a "add something to this". Every post we have has that "add to it" component.
Take a scroll for a detailed race write up. You make it a scroll because this lifeform post will have system, location, and possibly even special item posts inserted in it. You might not want people to automatically add to it. (comment yes, reply... not as much).
Take a scroll post for a complex scenario, linking NPCs, Locations, and Items (and possibly more types) to the original plot scroll. These are not ones to just add to. Or the reason you are making it a scroll is not to add to it.
Take a large article. That needs to be a scroll type post, to keep all the article parts together.
Settings, until the setting section goes live, are going to be much like scrolls.. if not scrolls. (I think settings will be much like scrolls are now... except with different display characteristics... kind of like a scroll squared... a data web).
As you can see, all scrolls are not going to be wide collaborative topics.
Agree, agree, agree in light of the enlightening.
Aside: Maybe we should stop calling them scrolls? Maybe Codex (codices) as they are "the binding together of many different/ loose pages". A codex is a way to bring together different things bound together by a theme.
Buying it, buying it.
Maybe the Green Light (ala #55) is now a scroll- an "add to this".
Catching the fever, yeah, can feel it.
>>>>>>>>
Perhaps in the box where the Idea scroll check is now, we will have 3 or 4
Codex
Scroll/ Add to me flag
Help Me/ Give Post Attention!
and such... all with the Show usage definitions in the middle column.
Ok, time to give this some serious thought as it changes much.
Codex Association driven. Brings together submissions that are related to each other in some way. Submissions should all intertwine together to form some kind of binding cohesion that makes the belong together.
Idea Scroll Theme driven. Brings together submissions of a specific type or theme into one area. All submissions should be based or reflect the intention of the King post.
-----
Open - Open to all for collaboration.
Restricted - Locked for additions except by author. Comments are the only thing available to everybody else, while the author can do Full Suggestions and Idea List comments.
63 sorry... I jsut can't leave things alone
In the Submissions option, instead of the write up, a collapsable menus a "Show Submissions types definitions"
63b) Freetext: Show freetext definitions collapsable menu.
Both 63 will reduce the amount of page-estate that you have to scroll through to get to entering an entry.
Will do.
64) How do I get to my profile without clicking on my name from one of the submissions?
In the header. Your name goes to V2.0 profile, "Profile" goes to forum (which I might remove since it is sort of useless from here).
You can also put your name in the search and it will give you link to your username. Might make that go automatically to your profile if it finds the username there. Extra step that shouldn't be too hard to code.
65 Did you know you can make several homepages? Should there be a cost or minimum level to make one of these?
?? Can you? How? You can have a homepage at Level 3.
66) make sure to save the encounters and slip them back into the ideas section... especially once you make the idea scroll. I thought that was the plan, but just in case.
Roger that. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#75Okay, I have not read MoonHunter's posts. I wanted to help though, so I decided to post my findings, even though MH has probably noticed them already. Bear with me.
The "NPC->Influences" section returns X -1 posts. So if it reads "Major(1)" it returns 0 posts, and if it had read "Major(3)" it would have returned 2. Catch my drift?
(Techy talk: It is an iteration error buddy. You forgot to return counterVariable++ posts =)
(Some minutes lateR) Hmmm... It seems that most of the categories are totally out of sync. With the NPCs there was at least some kind of logic, but the results I am getting now looks completely random. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#76Don't think it would be an iteration as I use foreach on those, but I can't remember if that showed up prior to "testing."
It might be the same as Dungeons, where I have done so much testing with the current data and updates and deletions straight in the database so that the scripts don't properly add and delete their values (those values are kept with the category, I don't count every type on every pageload).
Looking through the other categories as you probably did, I definately need to make sure the adding/subtracting script is working ok on updates when we start editing all these things. At one time it did work for sure, just a lot of things have been mysteriously breaking lately.
Will need to look deeper into this after I refresh the data which will be after we figure out this idea scrolls.
Don't worry about repeating anything, don't worry about reading anything prior, just post your experiences.
Even if it was touched on a different perspective goes a looooong way!
Thanks AG. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#77I am working on our new vocabulary based upon our mutual enlightenment. This will keep apple and orange conversations to a minimum (though we haven't had one of those in a while).
*) First check the grab bags. Take a look about how the forums posts will be migrated. (Note: most of the Myth section will be converted to ideas or plot, with five scrolls and one article resulting). Many things fit the "article" section because of the subject matter and approach.
67) The bottom of the pages. The ideas need to be constrained to a certain width, as does the Brought to you by Strolen's Citadel box and all the server notes. Mentioned before, not yet fixed.
68) Citadel Submissions should have a Comment Button on the bottom of the post. That will bring up the comment menu.
*********
Re 54 and touching on 53
While I agree, I too hate incomplete posts, we should expect more of it. I want you to think about one thing: Main Page Posts in the Forum.
Henceforth I am calling Main Page "The Citadel". There is that and the forum. Period.
To date, we have had an excuse, "The Citadel does not have XXX". Thus we have lifeforms and race write ups and setting write ups and locations that do not have a category and the scrolls of related ideas, in the forum because there was no way to do those on the Citadel without mis coding them.
Lockmor or V2 banishes that excuse. Articles or things like articles are on the Citadel. Literally the second through sixth forum are now on the Citadel proper. When settings opens up Forge and Worlds go away.
If people start posting Citadel Posts in the forums, we will start having "junk" fill up the forums or Good Posts that are not on the Citadel (non-searchable, non findable, lost to time). After moving a few hundred of these threads in the near future, I am not ever going to be in the mood to move many more.
Most of the activity on The Citadel. The forum is now an afterthought, for interesting threads and some junk, a few rants, and forum play. Sure it is good for community and community is important, but anything that looks like a Citadel post should be on the Citadel.
(I know many of the interesting threads should be Citadel Article Posts. Some peopel will even transfter them over. )
What is to stop any number of new members (or even lesser members) from putting up confused little Citadel posts... little question and answer posts. They post them up as setting or plots or something, which they have not yet thought of properly. We have had tons of those in the forums in the past. While I have pruned many of them that were not that interesting of productive, there are still a number of them there. They are somewhat helpful and constructive. (We have had tons of them on the Citadel as well). So they will post them up on the Citadel. We will work on them. And after a while, we will delete the stupid ones and leave the somewhat helpful/ instructive ones.
That is why an alert/ attention to me flag is a good idea. The person who posts the post might not use it, but we moderators admins and senior members sure will. Maybe it should be on the left side pull ups.
This things should not "pop up". You need to go to something in the left special menu to find them.
And please think about all the crap we delete because someone posts things up and does not finish... saying they will come back... and we delete the post two weeks later. This flag can be used to note this... or
Strolen said, "I also don't like the idea of a "Help Me" I don't like it either, but it will make things easier in the end.
Strolen says, "If we allow the help me's then any half-ass idea or concept will slowly creep into the main citadel, after all, we are encouraging it. ...."
Of course, you have seen how we have "encouraged" so many really bad posts in the past. And those posts go away.
We could let them stay... and mold in the bottom of the Citadel. We will probably delete them... like we do now.
Solutions that are good?
*1)We could have a Question/Problem and Answer section in the forum. Maybe most of the crap will stop there. And if the people who would post that crap would read that forum first, there might be less of it (it is wishful thinking I know... but still)
*2) A help me flag for people who need help to finish something. They can put this flag on the things in their sandbox or things not in their sandbox.
*3) Help Me-Admin Flag: This is also known as the Kiss of Death. We will flag posts that need special attention. Usually we will just delete in a few weeks after we try our normal flurry of posts (you know the kind... the kind we have turned into the FAQs)
-------------------------
Post This could be a comment, a reply, or item.... in the main page or forum.
Citadel The Main Page. Everything there will be categorized
Forum The non main page where we can chat and do community.
Submission A categorized first post on the Citadel. Comments are made upon Submissions.
Ideas Short pieces of informations, idea seeds.
Codex (Formerly called the Scroll, the nice structure we have worked) Association driven. Brings together submissions that are related to each other in some way. Submissions should all intertwine together to form some kind of binding cohesion that makes the belong together.
Scroll Theme driven. Brings together submissions of a specific type or theme into one area. All submissions should be based or reflect the intention of the Key/ King post. A scroll may or may not be a codex. It depends if the scroll will bring in existing submissions or submissions that are external to the scroll. Scrolls should be flagged saying "add to me".
Key: The First Submissions in the Codex or Scroll. The King post in old parlance.
Pages: Main or important submissions in a codex or scroll. They follow the Key/King post.
Comments A message commenting upon a Submission (Key or Page) or another Comment.
xxx : I don't have a good word for this. But this not just a comment but a page response in a Codice or Scroll
-----
Open - Open to all for collaboration.
Restricted - Locked for additions except by author. Comments are the only thing available to everybody else, while the author can do Full Suggestions and Idea List comments.
Working Incomplete. may or may not be flagged for assistance.
69 Where Idea Scroll click box is now in a submission- Radio Buttons
Expanded Submission Options
Scroll
Codice
With a collapsable menu
70) Submission options
A new name: Viewing Status: Radio button and pull down menu
Public
Personal (only accessible from your profile)
Invisible (only accessible from your profile and only you can see it)
71) Between Expanded Submission options and Viewing Status
Our various flags
Invite Help
Challange (Higher Level folks can see this right?)
Challange Edit (once you have edited it after it has been challanged)
Of course with expanding menus... -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#78This was my take before I saw yours.
Hermit = Solo Submission - Majority of the site's submissions are Hermits.
King Submission = Main Submission of an Idea Scroll
Prince Submissions = Any full submission under an Idea Scroll
Children = Previously Idea List Comments. The small, not quite full submission ideas that are allowed on Idea Scrolls but aren't comments.
Comments = Simply the comments.
Replies = Comment Replies.
The "Pages" on yours, not sure what that is.
OK, I am going to work and then reply when I have accomplished something. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#79Didn't mess with anything else except the the Scroll's page. Specifically "Books".
Except the votes, which seem to work on some Scrolls and not others, take a look at that and see if that is getting close.
I decided to go ahead and try and keep everything on one page. After you comment I will bring you down to the submission comment area that was commented on so you don't get lost. I also leave that comment expansion open after the comment is made just for more orientation.
The King/Key submission link just sends you to the bottom. All the editing and such will take place down there as well and the Children will be inputted only from there as well.
Tired -> Bed.
In theory, all the commenting and editing, should work....just some voting issues. -
BETA TESTERS REQUESTED (3 DAY countdown)
#80I think the only thing that doesn't work on the scroll is the comment voting and the vote going to the correct submission (not a big deal, just ran out of time for the moment)
http://www.rpgcitadel.com/content.php?node=1103
It is turning into spaghetti code though. Going to have to do some clean up once this is working.
EDIT
OK, I think everything is working now. You be the judge and let me know what the verdict is. Going to get to Moon's above comments now.