Evil PCs

1. Evil PCs

   #1

   How long it is since we have last spoken about evil stuff? I have diffilcuty to imagine working options for this, so your ideas are welcome.
   
   
   How can evil PCs be made functional in a game?
   
   I am not speaking about the "evil for evil's sake" characters, which we can agree on are too destructive and unusable. A character without motivation is hard to use anyway, whether for the so-called neutrals, or the good guys. ("Good" can be a certain exception - featuring a naive young character, that just wants to go out into the world, and just do good wherever it goes. But over time, even its target and purpose should be made clearer.) The evil for evil's sake guy is a problem for the group, as he can turn against his fellows anytime. We have discussed it in several other places already.
   
   An evil PC needs a purpose.
   
   
   So... Evil in the group:
   
   There exists one scenario for all the possibilities below:
   "Shared purpose" - typically revenge, or simply survival, the group may or may not be forced to cooperate by circumstances. The drive to stay together may be strong, but disappears once the goal is reached. Disagreements may end violently, so beware.
   
   
   1. Singular evil PC / minority
   
   1.a. Spy/Traitor - the standard position for a henchmen of someone/something else.
   
   1.b. Keeping it private - The character may not be rotten down to the heart, it's just some cruel/greedy aspect of personality not obvious to others. Can easily evolve into the murder mystery scenario or a variant.
   
   1.c. Personal drive - the PC has a goal (mostly) not conflicting with the group's goals, and is better off if cooperating with them, be it for fame or fortune, adventuring seems to be the best way to get it. The PC may or may not actively manipulate the group towards its goals. How about a benign 'supporter of the church', that appears to donate all that money to that church, while in fact most of it secretly hoarding elsewhere. Or that wizard, that actually wants to become a Necromancer, or find the secret of eternal life... no matter the cost.
   
   
   Note: A singular evil PC may be a chance for roleplaying a change of personality, turning from the bad guy into a good guy, or vice versa. The spy/traitor could find he actually likes these people, etc. It can be the troupe's wolverine/ "insert name of evil mage from Dragon Lance series"/ anti-hero. And may end up just being killed by appropriate party members (if they can get past the PC halo).
   
   
   2. A group in a group
   
   2.a. Hidden evil - maybe a band of thugs has assumed the identity of decent people, and wants or must stay hidden. They could be cultists of some dark cult, or lycanthropes or whatever... anyway bad news for a peaceful coexistence.
   
   2.b. Back to the school - those bad guys want to learn from the good guys! They want to become heroes themselves (sadly they miss the point of being honest and noble), or need training to become at least as hardy.
   
   
   3. Evil dominates
   
   3.a. Mercenaries - a group with a common professional past, bound by respect or something like friendship. It's not they would trust each other... but they have learned to trust other people even less. They travel the world and offer their services :roll: , or find own jobs.
   
   3.b. Not in _my_ universe - it's our turn to save the world. Damn those invading aliens/barbarians/demons, I want to run this place. Any noble titles and acclaim won in the process is fine, too. Probably an ego trip to the players.
   
   
   (Thanks to MoonHunter)
   
   The Evil Group... why Evils would band together:
   
   4.a. Minions of Greater Evil: While you compete with each other for standing, you have to complete missions together or be killed for failing.
   
   4.b. Member of the Evil Church: More the shared purpose kind of thing... you are unified in serving your Evil Deity. The rest is just personal fun.
   
   4.c. But they work for us: You are Evils, but you work for the "Good Guys" doing things they know need to be done, but can't do themselves. I, Spy, To Catch a Thief, etc, any number of criminals working for the government for pardons.
   
   4.c2. But we work for them: You are Evils, but you work for the "Good Guys" doing necessary things they can't/won't do themselves, but need to be done. Imagine Don Quixote being helped by his lowly squire to greatness. It takes many old ladies to push down the stairs for Good to prevail...
   
   
   
   Any ideas on the topic? I know it will provoke some.

2. Evil PCs

   #2

   The PCs may be 'evil' - whether vampires, werewolves, or hellspawn, who just have another goal than utter mayhem... dominance? Accomplishing something great (not necessarily nice)? Protect5ing something they deem worth it?
   
   A PC can be 'evil' and still beon the good side - "Sure, he's a sunnuvabitch, but he's on our side..." ... he may be a merc who sees his home town threatened, and though he may be scum, he'd rather not see his place of birth goup in flames.
   
   Enemy of my enemy: Perhaps a band of PCs teams up with a vampire who's no immediate threat (ha ha ha) against a rampaging bloodsucker.
   A vampire may not be the paragon of virtue, but some of them are fun to have around... he may be even docile if some cute party member allows him to nibble a bit - vampires also tend to acquire lots of knowledge, and become refined, over the ages, some of them may be gentlemen except for those quirks like: "Likes to rip off heads and mock them..."
   
   Fun: a demon might join PCs just for the hell of it, if they need his skills desperately. Adventurers tend to be fun.
   
   Keep me safe! : An evil henchman might defect from his ultra evil master, and beg the PCs for protection in return for aid and knowledge about his former master.
   
   Many adventurer groups want thrill, cash and cool gimmicks. Why sould bad guys have different needs? They just don't care about whether someone gets hurt in the process.
   
   I'm not evil, I'm doing the right thing: Amafia don does not think he's evil, he just 'protects' 'his' people, and they pay him. Some have to be punished for the whole thing to run smoothly.
   He's a businessman. So what if he dumps a few twerps into the harbor, boulders tied to their necks?

3. Evil PCs

   #3

   I actually have first-hand experience playing as an evil PC. My friend runs a "Vile" campaign(its DnD, so Vile, in this case, means no-holds barred evil, we can do anything we think we can get away with) and we are all evil characters. The cosmology of his world is set so that each plane has a top and bottom side, the top is "good" aligned and the bottom is "evil" aligned. All it means is that our side is generally more chaotic, violent and has somewhat more relaxed moral standards than the top side. I think the DM is running it well. He's letting us do our evil acts(undead raising by our cleric, sacrificial offerings by my druid, random gory violence by our fighter and ranger, etc...), but within reason. We are still succeptible to the law and if we were to slaughter an entire village, we can bet our asses we'd have a rather large armed posse after us to bring us in for trial.
   
   The premise of the campaign itself is that the two sides of any given plane are supposed to be at war, but for some reason on our plane, they've suddenly quit fighting one another. We were contacted by someone(think of him as Satan's right hand man and you're about there) and were basically hired to rekindle the war between the two sides. The problem is that our side(the bottom) is currently in the middle of a civil war, and even if we were to stop the war, the bottom side of the plane is much to weakened now from its own battles to be able to fight the top. All in all its a lot of fun, and I think our DM is pulling it off very well.

4. Evil PCs

   #4

   Read a nice Thieves rant on Gamegrene, about a facet of "evil" we did not cover that fully here... being a Thief.

5. Re: Evil PCs

   #5

   Well, I used to play evil PC for couple years and I can tell you - they are fun! Anyway, I have some experience how to work it out with other pary members, who have not the same view point as you do. So,  if there is an evil fellow under the good ones, he/she has to keep his/her head down. As soon as they know, they'll kill him/her. Then the evil one can do his job.  :twisted: According to my experience there is no other way how to work with a character with an oposit alighment. However in the end the evil one will have to fight the good one.  :( And only one will win. Mostly the smarter player. But it is not easy to kill a fellow, or a friends character ...  :(

6. Re: Evil PCs

   #6

   In campaigns I've run I've had a group of characters who was basically good and then there was one person who was basically an evil character.  It didn't stop the group from adventuring together.  The evil character I'm speaking about thought of himself as nuetral because he helped the rest of the group kill evil creatures but didn't see the fact the he had a million gold piece bounty (Ok I'm exaggerating a little) on his head for stealing things he shouldn't and killing people he should not have killed as a collateral effect of being evil.
   
   Think of modern times.  Our alignments are not so cut and dry in real life.  I've got family members who are evil or crazy (I'm not sure which)  if you look at things under the narrow scope of gaming rules.  Would I hang out with them?  Sure every once in a while.  If they got involved in a scrap would I help them out, most likely.
   
   In short I'd handle it by playing my gaming would with the same shades of grey that exist in the real world.

7. Re: Evil PCs

   #7

   It's impossible to work with such black-and-white categories. What makes an "evil" PC?
   I've had players who saved children from evil sorcerors, but then robbed caravans of their horses and gold in the midst of the wilderness. I had a person who's intention was to rule the world... As a benevolent dictator.
   
   Shades of grey, kids, shades of grey.

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