How?

1. How?

   #1

   Couldn't come up with a better subject line.
   
   I was reading a random plot in the thought I would comment (and still may) but as I read I think application in 2.0 for some reason.
   
   Here is the plot:
   http://www.strolen.com/plots/viewplot.php?plot_id=284
   
   As I read I mentally link stuff that I think can have its own submission. My list quickly grows.
   
   flame orchid - rare flower with powers
   BitterFruit - small town
   Gwiddeon Magus - town fool with a personality
   1st BitterFruit Regulars
   1st Bitterfruit Dismouted Lancers ( would consolidate these two)
   dreamweaver - another magic plant
   
   Then, of course, I find that all these things are in a dreamworld, but ignore that fact for now. Either way all the ideas can stand on their own as single submissions and it is the best example I can find before I go to bed.
   
   This is where I got the How?
   
   I want a way to tie all these together. OK, all the things I mentioned above get a link. Open in a new window, fine. For http://www.everything2.com/ that might be just fine since things are 'associated' but don't really rely on each other. What we are trying to do is have submissions that can lean on each other and pretty much interact. (this is a problem I am having with the settings section too but this brought this "how?" brought it into the main sections as well)
   
   So then I thought, well how about one of those popup boxes that are extra browser windows with no navication, just a box, and I can display the name, author, and submission content in that. So I am reading, I come across flame orchid I can click on it and it will bring up a javascript window that has the flower, author name, and description in a smaller window. I can browse through that, close it, continue on.
   
   When I am reading a submission, that would be handy. Pop-up, view, continue reading what I am reading. Problem is that what if I don't want a pop-up, what if I want to visit the flame orchid but now I can't because of this pop-up thing.
   
   So then I thought, well, the inline links in the submission could show a popup and then on the left I could have all the links that are in the submissions could be listed there which would actually take you to the other submission. I have been wanting to do the list of links things anyway. In that list of links that I would add to the left I would also have all submissions that link to this submission as well.
   
   I also thought about, instead of popup boxes, this idea keeps popping into my head and maybe it would be useable in this context.
   
   http://www.softky.com/TreeDoc/index.php3
   
   So if I wanted to know about flame orchid I could expand it and read it. I suppose it would just expand the entire submission. Inside that expansion would then be a link to the actual submission of the flame orchid in case they want to comment on it or follow the link that way.
   
   There is still something missing. I am trying to find it. I will have to think hard on that TreeDoc thing. While they have something that is sort of ugly it is easily made much more designer pretty.
   
   ??

2. Re: How?

   #2

   What a suprise, I have a comment on V2.
   
   

   
   http://www.strolen.com/plots/viewplot.php?plot_id=284
   
   As I read I mentally link stuff that I think can have its own submission. My list quickly grows.
   
   flame orchid - rare flower with powers (Lifeform (terrain), Flora)
   BitterFruit - small town (Location (Any), City)
   Gwiddeon Magus - town fool with a personality (NPC, Art, Minor)
   1st BitterFruit Regulars (Group, Combative Local)
   1st Bitterfruit Dismouted Lancers (Group, Combative, Local and link the two)
   dreamweaver - another magic plant (Lifeform (terrain), Flora)
   

   
   
   Welcome to my world. Once you think about it, almost everything is interconnected, or a single posts of a type will have associated posts. Remember the Order of the Flame
   http://www.strolen.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29739#29739
   It has three posts required to make it actually make sense. And I could of made one to three more NPCs as the Two Modern Riders (first new members) and the Poor Undying old Rider who is doing penance, then there are possible plots.... Of course to have plots, then settings.... *booom* [[Insert Muppet style head explosion]] The Mind can explode with all the possibilities.
   
   It can be a huge experience. It is almost too much freedom, if you let it get out from underneith you.
   
   

   
   All the things I mentioned above get a link. Open in a new window, fine. For http://www.everything2.com/ that might be just fine since things are 'associated' but don't really rely on each other. What we are trying to do is have submissions that can lean on each other and pretty much interact.
   

   
   As I understood version 2, we had a couple of innate ways to do this.
   
   1) There was a place at the bottom you could include links to items, systems, et all. This is kind of what we do now, with either links (as in the forum) or in the entries (npc=#, Location=#))
   

   Mostly applicable to your current issue, as everything could be linked back to the original plot.

   
   
   2) There is the free-text parmeter. You had your two selections (based on type) and a free-text one. This makes things searchable, especially once you realize the free-text search will pull up related entries and other commentary.
   

   Less applicable to your current issue, unless you were going to eventually link the posts to a single setting or theme the posts.

   
   
   3) Another Way was to create a Scroll (A header page) of a given type, then link them together that way. Each appropriate entry would then be made part of the scroll. I might someday finish the Magenta Rose series of Posts. All the various posts would be associated back to the scroll by....
   How do we get things associated with a scroll, do we add them to free-text? Do we put the scroll post in the bottom linkage? Do we post the associated items under the given scroll main page. I digress.
   
   4) The Last way is to create a setting, which starts as a set of thinks linked by freetext, but then could be bumped up to a setting with a setting header page (which functions much like a scroll).
   
   *) Of course you could find individual elements by scrolling down appropriate page lists, but that takes a while. Search for a common world is also a possiblity.
   
   This gives up six ways.
   
   

   
   This is a problem I am having with the settings section too but this brought this "how?" brought it into the main sections as well.
   

   
   Okay, now we are on the same page.
   
   We will follow your train of thought and come back to this point...
   
   

   
   So then I thought, well how about one of those popup boxes that are extra browser windows with no navication, just a box, and I can display the name, author, and submission content in that. So I am reading, I come across flame orchid I can click on it and it will bring up a javascript window that has the flower, author name, and description in a smaller window. I can browse through that, close it, continue on.
   

   
   That means that anyone who uses a name or type will create an automatic hyperlink? That could become EVIL. Nobody could use similar names. If they have to manually create these links, it would be better.
   
   There should be a couple of words in our moderator defined dictionary that do hyperlink.
   
   

   
   When I am reading a submission, that would be handy. Pop-up, view, continue reading what I am reading. Problem is that what if I don't want a pop-up, what if I want to visit the flame orchid but now I can't because of this pop-up thing.
   
   So then I thought, well, the inline links in the submission could show a popup and then on the left I could have all the links that are in the submissions could be listed there which would actually take you to the other submission. I have been wanting to do the list of links things anyway. In that list of links that I would add to the left I would also have all submissions that link to this submission as well.
   

   
   Yah. A list of things linked to the post. We like that. Especially if it is done automatically. Of course, how do we flag this? Also comments on posts how are those listed.
   
   

   Another Way was to create a Scroll (A header page) of a given type, then link them together that way. Each appropriate entry would then be made part of the scroll. I might someday finish the Magenta Rose series of Posts. All the various posts would be associated back to the scroll by....
   How do we get things associated with a scroll, do we add them to free-text? Do we put the scroll post in the bottom linkage,? Do we post the associated items under the given scroll main page.

   
   
   Now that we are back... lets begin with a core problem and expand it to setting.
   Headers
   
   First, we review what has gone before:
   http://www.rpgcitadel.com/guild/index.php?topic=2088.0
   
   Are we back? Great. So lets begin:
   
   A Header in version two is going to be broken into two categories Scrolls and Settings. In theory and mostly in practice they will be the same thing.
   
   

   ONE THING WE WILL NEED: The post's identifier Type and # at the bottom of the post to make it easy to reference things.

   
   
   Before Scrolls, there are clouds
   Now you can cross links a number of posts using the same free-text entry. This way you can get the effect of a scroll, without having to have a header. This is useful for proto-settings and loose groupings like the Magenta Rose grouping or the Order of the Eternal Flame group if completed. This would be stories or chunks of related stuff to drop in the campaign.
   
   The Wiki people call these clouds. I like that because they are soft, fuzzy, and nebulous. They are not sorted, unless you search for the linking free-text entry. There can be a header of sorts, which is just a normal entry/ post type (lets say item) where you explain things. Then you would manually list all the related items. It requires effort and time, but these things will happen.
   
   Scrolls are lists of themed items or posts: Garage Sale from Hell, City Image, and a couple of others. The advantage and purpose of header is to explain the grouping to someone. Unless you check out a large number of grouped/ cloud posts, you may not understand their purpose. But if there is a header, you can define things in the first post and expanded upon it with comments. (though you can have a manual header of sorts explaining them).
   
   The Header of a Scroll should also have a listing of everything that is part of the Scroll that is easy to access. Also if you hit the link, the new window pops up. (which is different than normal, where you click a link and the webpage changes).
   
   Headers would show up on the type page they are. So If I create a header in Plot (Like I would for Magenta Rose), it would show up there. If I created the Garage Sale from Hell header in Items, then it would show up there. All the posts properly linked to the header would show up, once you click on those.
   (Question, how to we handle these those scrolls which have multiple types? Are those just clouds or scrolls?).
   
   Scoll headers should be very easy to link to or create new posts from. Mechanism yet to be determined. Something to slog out soon.
   
   So How are Headers for Scolls created? You have to have a certain level of post to have access to it. It becomes an option that would appear next to
   Create New XXX
   Edit XXX
   Then
   Create Scroll XXX
   Where XXX is Item/ NPC/ Location/ Lifeform/ Group/ etc
   
   Scrolls will need a special flag allowing them to look different than standard posts... showing all the thinks linked to them.. and having them sortable by the type page.... (a show scrolls link)... possibly able to make a full reply, rather than just a comment. Maybe we can order the posts in the scoll.
   
   
   How do we link to scrolls or make Scroll like things....
   We have a couple of options:
   
   1) Cloud Introduction: After creating a post header, which is just a regular post, anyone can add an item to the list by simply adding the free text entry the same as title of the header. This is searchable by the search function.
   
   The advantage of this is that there is no special Header/ Scroll entry type. Less programing worry, less issue.
   
   1b) Cloud 2
   After creating the post header, people could just make new posts of any kind and link back to the scroll by putting the post's listing. You would then put those links in the scroll
   
   (Question, if every post shows every post linked to it, then what would be the point of a special kind of scroll header?)
   
   Again, this is another no special header/ scroll entry type. less programing, and no issue. Scrolls would be put together manually. It means a scroll would have to be managed directly by its owner. What happens when they leave or loose interest?
   
   2) Scroll Introduction: Special Kind of post that will show all the pages linked to it. Rather than a normal post which just shows the links you insert in it. Scrolls would also be sortable as scroll headers. So you would just put the scroll's link back to thread. (So if the Garage Sale Header is ITEM=21, then I would put ITEM=21 in the post listing, and this post would show up in the auto linking section of the scroll.
   
   Requires a special post, but that special post would have other abilities.
   
   3) Scroll Thread with Reply and Comment: Special kind of post, but you must reply, then input the post in that scroll thread. Replys being full posts, comments being comments on an individual post. This might make easier programing, because it is basically the same as what we have now (which may or may not make it easier). You can not add existing posts to the thread without replying and copying the post. (not that bad of a problem as long as this does not become epidemic. I admit I have a couple of posts like this now.) The Free-Text can link posts as well. (A neighborhood link back to Antioch (via search function) or Arth (via setting post).
   
   Everything is done automatically. It is simple. It means there is an entirely different mode for Settings.
   
   4) Scroll Button: At the bottom of a Scroll, you click a "button" that lets you add to it. It would then ask you the type (item/ npcs/ location/ et al) and you would enter that item in. The post would have a special link back to the scoll header. This would be different than a comment or reply.
   
   Somewhat automatic posting. The links would then be listed on the post as well. Settings and scrolls could be done under this structure
   
   
   So we have a basic header structure.
   
   Of course, you know the moment you have the ability to make a scroll, you have the ability to make a setting like arrangement- Link everything together. Start with a single post, probably a location, and create a cloud linked to it.
   
   A setting header is eventually "promoted", so it can be in the pull down and easier to access.
   
   We need to define what each input area is to be used for
   
   We have the Free-Text, which allows you to sort by alpha free-text in each type the free-text appears. It is also searchable by the search function.
   
   Links: Links are just things we want you to look at in relation to the post. Just like the links we put in now on items etc.
   
   Cloud: Groups linked by Free-Text (which is more accessible) or links (invisible, but more direct).
   
   Header: Define the type of header and the purpose for the posts related. The Header shows all the threads linked to the header. We also should be able to organize the links shown by the headers. This is for Scrolls and Settings.
   
   Perhaps Headers in the Setting section can have headers under it. That way we can more redily organize each area. So I can have Arth and all the main Arth threads. Each one is readily a BIG THING and a Continent Header. I can then make a Header for each Region of the Continent (ThirdLand is the only one that would have this special subdivision, but it is just an example). It could go down and be near infinite Arth/ ThirdLand/ Antioch City State/ Antioch City/ Neighborhoods/ things inside neighborhood.
   
   Lets let you digest this, and we will move on.

3. How?

   #3

   We need to meet with pen and paper!
   
   Still digesting. Want to research a couple things before I settle on a response.

4. How?

   #4

   Bump so I can read this again in a little bit.

5. Re: How?

   #5

   Bump, as we are talking linking again.
   

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