Strolen's Citadel

Rise of the Strolenati-Ideas/Suggestions · Legacy archive

V3.0 Worlds

Started by Strolen Jan 16, 2005 16 posts Locked

  1. V3.0 Worlds

    #1
    These are my compiled thoughts on how to work them and ANY input about the would be greatly appreciated. There has been some other discussions but I am not sure anything was actually decided on.

    So here is the proposal with questions:

    We have two main categories
    Worldforge and Locations

    Locations
    This will basically envelop the current "settings" category we have in the main Citadel.

    Will be divided into type of location and environment just like it is now.
    -Any
           --Cave
           --City
           --Forest
           --Mountain
           --Other
           --Plains
           --Road
           --Swamp
           --Water

    -Type
    --Any
    --Establishment (Bar/Tavern...)
    --City (Town/Village...)
    --Ruins (Dungeon...)
    --Area (forest/swamps...)
    --Country (County/Duchy/other holdings...)

    (more? different?)

    Nothing new.

    Worldforge

    This will get ugly quick.

    Two categories
    World Elements and Worlds

    A list of elements that can be used in a world that are not a physical location or a description of a physical style.
    -Worldforge
    --Languages
    --Standards (money, distances, weights and measures)
    --Calendars
    --Magic Systems
    --Religion (dieties, creation, cults)
    --Herbalism
    --Myths
    (I know there is more (or less), all I could come up with the help of Moon's examples and looking over some settings)

    -Worlds
    --The Armorican Kingdoms
    --Arth

    This will be a listing of user created worlds and the part that could be complicated or very simple.

    The idea is to put all world related submissions in their proper place throughout the Citadel and use this category to link it all together in a comprehensive world. The question is how to use this area to make it helpful to world builders and to the people that will be browsing it.

    Here are a few options I have come up with in no particular order.

    (in all cases, the addition of a world would have to be approved and added by a mod/admin)

    1.  Have the world section the same as any other and leave it up to the world builder to build their own index and links to all the other submissions associated with their world. This will be sort of like the indexes that people have created in the forums. So when you visit Arth, you will visit a post with a list of links to all the other submissions.

    2.  Have each post submitted to other sections have an optional drop down selection to be associated with the main world. The drop down would only be available to the author of the world unless they chose to let others submit to their world. In this case, once a World category was created then any submission associated with the world would be shown automatically sorted by categories in the Citadel. In this case when you clicked on Arth you would get a hierarchy of submissions that are associated to Arth divided by main category (plots, locations, items, etc.)

    3.  Sort of like #2 combined with #1 but you are also given a special type submission that you can use to intertwine other submissions as necessary. You can decide which submissions you want to be visible inside your world section. Being able to control this allows you to put together sections that are more comprehensive then the single submissions would be. With these special type submissions you can take a City and a Plot and NPCs and combine them all inside a single special submission. Then you can hide them (or just leave them and allow them  to be duplicated) and use your new submission as the content of your world. Inside the special submission you would basically embed other full submissions in this new one allowing you to add any kind of extra text around them to allow them to flow better. You can have these imbedded submissions be the full submission or just a summary with a link. They will be linked anyway to allow others to comment on each embedded section or they can comment on the submission as a whole. (Not sure if I explained it well)

    So you have a Location, a Plot and an NPC that are all linked together in normal submissions. In the world section you can make a single submission, write an intro and then embed the entire location, then write some more and then embed the Plot then introduce the NPC and embed maybe the summary. So in this one submission you have them all seemlessly spliced together with transitions. This special submission will have a new name that will now show up under your world. You can allow the embedded submissions to still show up or you can hide them since they are all incorporated into this new submission.

    These special submissions will only be visible inside the World category.

    4.  Go a little crazy and give the world builder pretty much free reign to design categories they believe they need to create their own world. Each submission would still have to be submitting initially to the main Citadel categories, but once there they can use their own world interface to add those submissions to whatever category or subcategories they created themselves.

    For all these sections I think I will have to come up with a new way to list the submissions. Not sure if the standard listing will work. But once we have at least an idea on how we want to set it up we can experiment with the actual way of displaying it all.

    Thoughts?

  2. V2.0 Worlds

    #2
    1. Have the world section the same as any other and leave it up to the world builder to build their own index and links to all the other submissions associated with their world.

    Very few people are anal or dedicated enough to do this. (I am one). And most would bury said index a few dozen comment posts down the thread. It takes a bit of savy about the site and how things work to make it work. Most our members don't have that. Unless there is something automatically doing it, I don't trust it to getting done.

    2) Have each post submitted to other sections have an optional drop down selection to be associated with the main world. The drop down would only be available to the author of the world unless they chose to let others submit to their world.

    If you can't comment upon worlds then while posting all the material up is cool, there is no way for us to interact with it or even ask questions about it. And if someone starts putting up a really awful/ annoying world, it would require admins to take the heavy hand and slap it down... rather than the comments from the peanut gallery... which might improve it. We look more democratic with open comments.



    3. Sort of like #2 combined with #1 but you are also given a special type submission that you can use to intertwine other submissions as necessary.

    So this is the header post, with your comments upon it building up the world's main thread... then links to all the locations, npcs, et all you create for it. This works, as it can be used for worlds and themed posts/ series. That way you create one mechanic instead of two. I know you like to do more work and tinker, but simplicity has its virtues.


    3b These special submissions will only be visible inside the World category.
    The losing of information or the burying of things is what we were trying to avoid wasn't it?


    4. Go a little crazy and give the world builder pretty much free reign to design categories they believe they need to create their own world.

    NO. NO. NO. NO. (plus 996 more no s)
    Ancarchy, wierdness that even I would have a hard time to following. I can mention "He whos name should not be said" and RA. Now contemplate what they would do with that kind of freedom. Those are worst case scenario, but some of our other odd members would be generating "stuff". So sure most people would not see it, but it will be there. We want things to be useful to some level. Without a standard organization, even the random gunk can't be that because people can not find things that could be useful. And what is the point of having searchable categories if they are not completely searchable and easily referenced.

    (more to come)

  3. V2.0 Worlds

    #3

    2) Have each post submitted to other sections have an optional drop down selection to be associated with the main world. The drop down would only be available to the author of the world unless they chose to let others submit to their world.

    If you can't comment upon worlds then while posting all the material up is cool, there is no way for us to interact with it or even ask questions about it. And if someone starts putting up a really awful/ annoying world, it would require admins to take the heavy hand and slap it down... rather than the comments from the peanut gallery... which might improve it. We look more democratic with open comments.


    You will always be able to comment.

    What this option does is.
    a) I have a world I want to start to develop. Generally I will have to build up something in the Forums to show that I have something worth making a world section in the main citadel.
    b) Once the admins/mods/upper levels decide (whether it be by vote or just an admin deciding they deserve a world section in the main citadel) the admin will create a category under the world section with the name of the world.
    c) The author will decide whether they will allow other people to submit to his world. If they do then whenever anybody puts in a submission they will have that world available via a drop down menu to associate that post with a world.
    d) The author submits world submission to all the current categories of the citadel. The author does NOT only submit things to his world, you can't actually submit things to your world, you only associate submissions with your world.
    e) You go to your world category and it will only grab those submissions that are associated to your world. How to display these is the main problem.

    So all world submissions are basically normal submissions which you are able to view just like any other submission. Each submission will have a link to the world they are associated with but if you don't care about viewing worlds, you just view them like normal.



    3. Sort of like #2 combined with #1 but you are also given a special type submission that you can use to intertwine other submissions as necessary.

    So this is the header post, with your comments upon it building up the world's main thread... then links to all the locations, npcs, et all you create for it. This works, as it can be used for worlds and themed posts/ series. That way you create one mechanic instead of two. I know you like to do more work and tinker, but simplicity has its virtues.


    This sounds about right.


    3b These special submissions will only be visible inside the World category.
    The losing of information or the burying of things is what we were trying to avoid wasn't it?


    The only post that is buried is the header post which you use to describe your world and intertwine a couple of the more important details. This special post would only be viewable when you go to the category of the world you are building.

    All the other submissions will still be viewable as normal submissions and are still linked to that world. This special post tying it together would mainly be a descriptive intro to the world so you aren't just thrown into it when you go to their world category. The special submission just allows you some extra freedom in creation as far as how other submissions can be linked or shown inside it.

    So if I clicked on Arth I would go to that world's section and there would be the special post, either shown immediately or always shown as the first link available which will describe what Arth is and what to expect from this area. In this post the author has the opportunity to add links, add links with a summary, or add links with the entire submission in it, depending on how they want to set it up.

  4. V2.0 Worlds

    #4
    I am not sure I like our Worlds concept as it stands. I have a feeling of unease whenever I try to pinpoint what I want to do with it and how it is going to be structured.

    Mostly I think it is too confined.

    The confinement is actually harder to work through with all the variables a world takes into account. I am not saying there shouldn't be defined structure of sort for ease of navigation and my sanity, but I think that we need to go outside what we are doing with the rest of the submissions. Most of the submissions in the main categories can be stand alone. You can view one, take it as it is and be happy. Yes, there might be connections between that one and another or perhaps more, but for the most part you can look at one and be happy.

    All the parts of the world should still be like this and should still fit nicely in all the other categories, but to have a world category should be more than just gathering together posts in a simpler format.

    No, I don't know exactly what I want out of it but I am going to start thinking outside the confinement of the current structure. The world parts will still definately be submitted into the main categories but I am going to be thinking of a new way to structure the worlds and bring them together that allows more freedom for creativity for the World author than just listing submissions from other categories.

    I will have to go through some links http://www.hut.fi/~vesanto/link.networld/netw_list.html and see if I can see some trends in world development organization (as well as Ylorea, and Kinslayers well developed systems) to try and see if there are some organizational methods that I like and that I can combine with ours.

    Mostly it is the confinement of the menu and navigation that somehow gets me. I am just unsatisfied with it right now.

    Perhaps it only needs a unique autolinking feature that will allow similiar links to autolist somewhere. So if I am looking at cities in a particular country all the cities of that country will list automatically. If I am looking at establishments in a city, all the establishments in that city will be autolinked in a visible list.

    I need to somehow make the world system trully a WORLD system and not just submissions brought into a heading. I am just having trouble pinpointing how to do it beyond what we have already discussed. It needs more intuitive something, I just don't know what it is missing...but it is missing something, and that something is frustrating me........

  5. Okay... Settings

    #5
    First, stop calling them Worlds. They are Settings. The reason we call them settings is that most people never flesh out the entire world, just one big continent (or one section of said continent) and define the rest as "there be monsters here". (See our discussion on Locations)

    Each Setting will be a "big net" in which all the related various posts will fall. So why I might have a Location Post which will be part of the City Image Scroll, it will also be "in the net" of Arth.

    We need the Setting Summary post and the list of associated posts that automatically lists all the posts with that entry.

    The Setting Summary Post and the Listing of associated posts (with the comments upon the world summary) is really the purpose of setting

    Now should we have a tiered system, graphically showing the associations.?

    For Example
    Arth
    -System- Andoran Culture
    -system- Andoran Religion
    -System Andoran/ Known World History
    -LifeForm Elventi
    -LifeForm Dwarventi
    -LifeForm Humanti
    -LifeForm Orcenti
    -Location FirstLand
    -seven biomes
    --NPCs (if I want to write up the nobles)
    -Location SecondLand
    --All 16 biomes- Location
    --system- SecondLand Culture/Society
    --Group- SecondLand Peoples/ Ethnic Group
    --LifeForm Amazonti - Racial
    --System - Amazonti-Culture
    --LifeForm Wapti
    -Location ThirdLand
    --Locations - Other
    --Location City Antioch
    ---Locations-7 neighborhoods
    ---Locations- Buildings
    ----NPCs asscociated with Buildings
    ---System (Recipe Scroll)
    --Location City Amar
    ---System (Recipe Scroll)
    --Location City Avon
    -Location MaskLand
    --System- Maskland Culture
    --System- Religion of Danu
    -ForthLand....
    -Northland
    (Actually these will be alphabetized, so it will be out of my mental order)

    This is kind of cool, because then we can link Antioch Posts under Antioch - a city under Antioch the region, under ThirdLand, under Arth.

    On a related note
    So really what the setting post ideally should be is another way to view/ organize the data AND allow the data to be part of two scrolls (One being the world and the other being another series, like City Image or Desert Settings)

    Back on topic
    So The Settings link would pull up a standard page, just like the Ideas section. It would also give you the option to pull up a list of all the Settings, just like you could get an alpha list of all the items or NPCs. Once you get the Setting page, you would sort as you like.

    I mean the Setting "The World of Orbs" will be three locations, one NPC (Mythic), three groups, 18 items, and a few plots (yet to be writen).

    Others will be a two or three posts plus the world summary.

    And Arth and a few of our settings will be HUGE.

    So the ability to utilize a "main page" then sort as you want to...

    Hmmm. That means maybe Settings should have two sorting categories
    Genre
    -Fantasy-Low
    -Fantasy
    -Fantasy-High
    -Fantasy-Historical (slavish built upon a historical period)
    -Fantasy-Modern (Charles DeLint, Changeling, et al)
    -Fantasy-Science (StarWars)
    -Sci-Fiction
    -Horror/ Supers (Modern Variations)
    Scope
    -City/State
    -Country (and surrounding areas)
    -Region (Western Europe or Eastern Asia)
    -Continent
    -World (Short Summary- for scifi planets or Eternal Ring)
    -World (Long Summary - several continents to be fleshed out)
    -System (Star and larger system)
    -Other (Meadows if you are doing a Watership Downs, or others)

    That way we can utilize all the existing page functions, and just have the Setting Post initialize a listing.

    So Main Settings (Arth, Kerren, CP's worlds, Agros, et all) will be off the pull down, and developing settings will have their pull and have a manual fill in?

    Just some thoughts, more to come.

  6. V2.0 Worlds

    #6
    Chewed on it for a couple days and it tastes pretty good.

    Yes, settings, my slip.

    For this setup the only firm category is the world that the admins input.

    Everything else, structure wise, will be determined by the author...which I like. These aren't just arbitrary category creations but where each submission is assigned.

    The main Arth is created by an admin which still allows the main Arth overall description/header thing.

    At this point the author will have to do some work. Decide how they want to organize (which can be changed and updated at any time). They will have to go through each of their world submissions (they don't have to hunt for them, a link will provide them will all the submissions used with their world keyword) and assign each submission to a parent.

    So

    "-System- Andoran Culture" will be assigned to "Arth". etc for systems
    "-LifeForm Elventi" will be assigned to "Arth". etc for lifeforms

    "-Location ThirdLand" will be assigned to "Arth"
    "--Locations - Other" will be assigned to "-Location ThirdLand"
    "--Location City Antioch" will be assigned to "-Location ThirdLand"
    "---Locations-7 neighborhoods" will be assigned to "--Location City Antioch"
    etc

    All this will have to be manually accomplished by the setting author. Good thing is they can place whatever they want wherever they want in a hierachy that makes sense to them and the style they are building it. I may want to design my setting around Lifeforms. I want a lifeform as my main category and the cities or countries that the lifeform inhabits under that. The lifeforms may be so important to the setting that it makes more sense that way.

    Or I may want to design a setting around a plot. I can put a plot as my main category and lead you through all the places, NPCs, and Items that the plot is destined to take you. So this setting is designed around a plot and the categories make more sense be linear due to the unraveling of the plot.

    In this way they can also build category headers that read as category headers if they wish. Instead of everything having to be a standalone they can design submissions to enhance or complete the setting.

    This thought gives me the idea of allowing setting builders the options of having their submissions viewable in the main citadel or only in the setting. You will have to have an approved setting to have this option. But this would allow the setting builder added freedom to be more creative and narrow in their 'submissions' that will only be visible in their setting so can be customized and pinpointed to their setting.

    These can be notes, or add-ons that don't meet the criteria for a solid submission but stuff that will enhance the setting they are working on.

    This is all ignoring your "Scope" criteria however. I think I am leary of pigeon holing all the settings into a hierarchy of our design when the creation of a setting can be so dynamic. I like the idea of the author able to create their own structure.

    What say ye? cringe

  7. V2.0 Worlds

    #7
    This is all ignoring your "Scope" criteria however. I think I am leary of pigeon holing all the settings into a hierarchy of our design when the creation of a setting can be so dynamic. I like the idea of the author able to create their own structure.


    Why be leary? We do it for everything else. I mean stop and think about it. We categorize and shoe horn everything else. Why be freaked out about doing it in the settings?

    If they change the scope of their world, the creator or helpful mod can simply edit the first post and change it over to the best scope.

    So as I understand this, we will be able to create setting headings that are linked to other setting headings? How are we going to get those to link? So my sub settings will be listed as setting on their own? Confused.

    I sort of like their ability to create their own structure, but unless the structure is somewhat automatic and simple in its application, all we will do is give tools to people to really screw things up or make things too complex (SPI syndrome) or too useless in their organization to be followed easily by others. I like the structure to emerge from our posts... but unless moderators are going to actively ride herd over out people... I would like the structure to be automatic, or nearly automatic.

    If I can put the Setting# lists in my self (like we do for items and such) then I could organize them in the way I like. Yet, the automatic feature means nothing gets lost or left behind. Both are an option, where I have to manually add the listing... and all the posts are listed below in either alpha or temporal order (I like temporal order, but that is just me).

    Perhaps a click for Main Topic, Expansion of main topic. Subtopic, expansion of subtopic. notes. This creates a cascading tier system like an outline. Of course, that also means the person has to understand the Outline concept. Ask several people to generate an outline and see all the variations and you can understand the complications implied by this.

    Oh. And what is to stop Me from putting a new setting location in your setting that does not meet your cannon other than politeness.

  8. V2.0 Worlds

    #8
    Why be leary? We do it for everything else. I mean stop and think about it. We categorize and shoe horn everything else. Why be freaked out about doing it in the settings?


    Yeah, but those are single serving submissions. This is a lot more ambitious and involves bringing something together in a meaningful and understandable way. To force all settings to conform to a single hierarchy seems a little too stringent for me.


    If they change the scope of their world, the creator or helpful mod can simply edit the first post and change it over to the best scope.


    That will only change the surface of it but nothing else changes and so doesn't really represent the vision of the person designing the setting. The two examples I gave previously about settings designed around a lifeform or a plot (or an item for that matter) would not be able to develop organically (for lack of a better word, build up from a central idea) and logically as far as that setting is concerned.

    So as I understand this, we will be able to create setting headings that are linked to other setting headings? How are we going to get those to link? So my sub settings will be listed as setting on their own? Confused.


    So am I. Will try and explain it better at the end.

    I sort of like their ability to create their own structure, but unless the structure is somewhat automatic and simple in its application, all we will do is give tools to people to really screw things up or make things too complex (SPI syndrome) or too useless in their organization to be followed easily by others. I like the structure to emerge from our posts... but unless moderators are going to actively ride herd over out people... I would like the structure to be automatic, or nearly automatic.


    I guess I just have more faith in people. You don't just get a setting heading. First you have to prove yourself and your setting before you are even able to use this. Hopefully at this point the author has enough time invested and is interested enough in their own setting to take the initial time to organize their stuff. After the initial organization after being granted a setting title each submission thereafter can be done from where you initially input the submission. Will try and explain the entire idea after after.

    If I can put the Setting# lists in my self (like we do for items and such) then I could organize them in the way I like. Yet, the automatic feature means nothing gets lost or left behind. Both are an option, where I have to manually add the listing... and all the posts are listed below in either alpha or temporal order (I like temporal order, but that is just me).


    You will still be able to put the setting name or number in yourself. That can be handy for many more things than just the overall organization and is sort of separate but additional to what I am proposing.

    The author created hierarchy doesn't leave anything behind either. It will still show up but will be in a default listing. Not sure how to do it but initially there will be a default structure that everything will get. It will be up to the author to edit this structure to fit how he wants it. Once they redo the structure everything will still be visible so if he forgets to order something, it will still be there, just not where he wants it to be.

    Perhaps a click for Main Topic, Expansion of main topic. Subtopic, expansion of subtopic. notes. This creates a cascading tier system like an outline. Of course, that also means the person has to understand the Outline concept. Ask several people to generate an outline and see all the variations and you can understand the complications implied by this.


    It won't take that much understanding as I intend to have it all shown to them after every change unless I figure out an easier way to do it. It will be more of thing like, "Choose which submission you want to place" then it will show the current outline "Click on the heading where you want this to be placed under." That type of thing. So if I want it under the main heading, I click on "Arth" and it turns into a main cat. Then I click on another submission and click on the main heading I just added an it is now place under there as a subheading. Can put it together however they want.

    Oh. And what is to stop Me from putting a new setting location in your setting that does not meet your cannon other than politeness.


    I didn't get too far into the mechanics before as I was concentrating on the idea. First the author will have to give the permission for others to add things to their setting. If they allow this, I as anybody wouldn't want people just adding stuff to my setting, the author must approve any additions to their setting. There will be another category in their setting for awaiting approval that everybody can view and see where it is suppose to go in the setting and the author can accept, reject, or suggest changes to make the submission acceptable. Nothing will be added to the setting without the authors approval and nothing is harmed as the stuff awaiting approval are normal submissions that also show up in the setting they want to add it to.

    I will write another post with a quick example of the implementation of this in a bit to solidfy my ideas and hopefully explain what I am thinking a little bit clearer.

  9. V2.0 Worlds

    #9
    Keeping it simple.

    OK, I have submitted the following. All these were submitted in the main citadel under the appropriate category. All these have "My Setting" in the freetext area bringing them all together.

    Location - Country 1
    Location - Country 2
    Location - City 1a
    Location - City 1b
    Location - City 2a
    Location - City 2b
    Location - City 2c

    Item 1a
    Item 2a
    Item 2b

    NPC 1a
    NPC 1b
    NPC 1c
    NPC 2a

    Right now there is an option to search for "My Setting" and all these submission will come up organized by date and by main category Locations are grouped together by date, Items by date, then NPCs by date. So you can see them all together but there isn't any kind of organization except by category. (We can maybe come up with something better than this order, just keeping it simple.)

    Ask the admin for a setting, they look and you get a setting and it is inputted as "My Setting"

    Now you can click on "My Setting" and you come up with the auto sort order of:

    Location
    - Country 1
    - Country 2
    - City 1a
    - City 1b
    - City 2a
    - City 2b
    - City 2c

    Items
    - Item 1a
    - Item 2a
    - Item 2b

    NPCs
    - NPC 1a
    - NPC 1b
    - NPC 1c
    - NPC 2a

    (again, keeping it simple, the default sort can be better than this, just showing the idea, not exact implementation. Really though, there is no way to sort them except by the current categories so they will be lumped together regardless of association depending on their type. But this is over simplified to get the overview vs. the details.)

    So now I have "My Setting" and I can redo the sort order. I go to the "Outline" page (or hierarchy page, sort order page, whatever) and get to change my organization around.

    I want to organize mine by location so my first step is to create

    - Country 1
    - Country 2

    as main categories. I click on "Country 1" to say I want to change its location, then I click on "My Setting" as the location I want to put it. I do the same for "Country 2." So now I have this shown to me as my current outline.

    Country 1

    Country 2

    Location
    - City 1a
    - City 1b
    - City 2a
    - City 2b
    - City 2c

    Items
    - Item 1a
    - Item 2a
    - Item 2b

    NPCs
    - NPC 1a
    - NPC 1b
    - NPC 1c
    - NPC 2a

    I do some more clicks and I place my cities underneathe the correct countries. Once all the submissions under the default category (locations for instance) are author sorted then that default category will automatically dissappear. In this way you can author sort what you want but anything not sorted will stay under its default category. So I move the cities and I get the following:


    Country 1
    - City 1a
    - City 1b

    Country 2
    - City 2a
    - City 2b
    - City 2c

    Items
    - Item 1a
    - Item 2a
    - Item 2b

    NPCs
    - NPC 1a
    - NPC 1b
    - NPC 1c
    - NPC 2a

    Now by clicking on the Items and NPCs and clicking on the places I want them to be I finish off my author outline.


    Country 1
    - City 1a
    - - NPC 2a
    - City 1b
    - - Item 2a

    Country 2
    - City 2a
    - - NPC 1a
    - - - - Item 2b
    - City 2b
    - - NPC 1b
    - - NPC 1c
    - - Item 1a
    - City 2c

    The randomness is just to show that I can place anything anywhere. A couple of the items are located in cities while "Item 2b" will be associated with "NPC 1a" so he will have this item. In actuality each of these, obviously, will be actual city/country names and item names so the order will be entirely created by submission titles.

    I could add more but I will leave at this for now so as not to get ahead of myself. In general, non-specific, detailess, this is what I was thinking.

  10. V2.0 Worlds

    #10
    Oh, the only thing I wanted/needed to add were the extra 'submissions' that wouldn't count as submissions.

    Just a poor example:

    Country 1
    - City 1a
    - - NPC 2a
    - City 1b
    - - Item 2a

    Perhaps there is a large road between City 1a and City 1b but there is not enough to demand its own "Location" but it would still add something to this setting. I could perhaps add between these two:

    Country 1
    - City 1a
    - - NPC 2a
    - City Road
    - City 1b
    - - Item 2a

    "City Road" is the submission that isn't a submission as it is only used as some extra details that enhance the setting. The order is arbitrary putting it inbetween. Not sure if I will allow that much control of placement as that will require yet another sort option and another layer of settings by the setting author. But even if it is anywhere it makes sense in this context. It can also be linked by anybody still, but won't show up in general listings.

    Maybe a poor example but I just remembered I left this part out from what I described earlier.

  11. Re: V3.0 Worlds

    #11
    I popped this up here again as it is once again getting relevant.

    I also found this. How about something like this allowing you to sort. :)

    http://neb.net/playground/dragdrop/

  12. Re: V3.0 Worlds

    #12
    Should I move this to Ideas/Sugg for mass consumption? It has been hidden for a long time now.

  13. Re: V3.0 Worlds

    #13
    The script looks neat, with all the respective considerations applied to scripts taken into account. :)

    (Oh, and thanks for the link... I'm working in my new job on a JavaScript image-almost-as-if-editor, and it's a real pain in the... anyway.)

    As for the "extra 'submissions' that wouldn't count as submissions" mentioned two posts above, we have just instituted them as Stubs. :p We're coming closer!

    Now moving this into Ideas... not sure. I have some difficulty grasping the whole discussion. But there was a good discussion with Strolen:

    ---

    me: (Had a look at the Worlds thread... and am confused.) Is there actually some sort of initial vision that comes from that thread?
    Ie, how will the World thing look?
    Strolen: If I have my way, it will basically be a user's world page that they will be able to customize categories, sort orders, and graphics and page layout.
    Strolen: It will be connected to the citadel so it can suck in all the stuff, but when you visit the "world" page, it will be that world however the author sets it up.
    me: (Ah, I imagined it somehow like that.)
    Strolen: It is hard to put into text, which is why I am looking forward to the con. Very difficult to type out the vision. :)
    me: I looked at those simple menus you have listed.
    Strolen: It is going to be the new face of the Citadel I think. It will be coded from scratch to use everything we have and I am pretty certain that once it is done, I will port everything else over to the new scheme. Not necessarily look, but code/css/ajax/etc
    me: How about we leave the world-creator the left menu?
    Strolen: It will all be CSS so it can end up anywhere. Up to the world author.
    Think zen garden for the Citadel.
    me: Yeah, well, but maybe there should be something left of the old Citadel as well...
    ...some part of the right menu, perhaps.
    Strolen: I can't see changing most of what you see, it will probably be mostly the looks and the code. I like the features we have, I just need them easy to modify/work with.
    The design will definitely change though. Get rid of all the nested tables and get the html to validate.
    me: (That's a change of the code... not of the basic design :) )
    Strolen: It will be a big change, much like the 1.0 to 2.0 when we transitioned. A lot of talk on how to make it better and keeping all the stuff we like. Very two-way through the whole thing. You know I work slow. :)
    me: I start to be kind of displeased with the main page, and the right menu.
    Too much stuff there.
    Strolen: I will probably write another vision statement soon, before the con, like I did for 2.0.  Just so at least some can see where I am going with everything.
    me: We should somehow slim it down... though the method currently escapes me.
    (Vision statement good.)
    Should we have a real good design, we can keep it consistent across everything Citadelian.
    Strolen: The main page will DIE. Just trying to figure out how to do it. I have started it 5 times. I will probably use some of the new citadel explained and make it into the index. (I will keep the old, because I like it for info, just BAD for normal navigation and a first intro to the site)
    If we have CSS then those web savvy people can design their own and we can all benefit from their talent!
    We need to get rid of all the nested tables that we are crutched with right now.
    me: Mayhaps... though something should stay always the same.
    Strolen: :) Then I would be bored and close the site.  hehehe
    me: :D
    Nah, I mean some part of the design across all the parts of the Citadel.
    Strolen: I still have that user orientated vision in my head to that we discussed a while ago.
    me: The user homepage thing?
    Strolen: Oh, I see what you are saying.
    Yep, user homepage thingy. Again, with css it is sooooooo easy to add and dump things.

  14. Re: V3.0 Worlds

    #14
    Another Sort script, but better and more realized to our concept. THIS is what I have wanted!

    Imagine the top list being all of the submissions in the setting and the groups below them being the categories you dynamically set up. Then it is as easy as dragging your submission to the group you want in the order you want and your organization is done.


    http://www.gregphoto.net/sortable/advanced/

  15. Re: V3.0 Worlds

    #15
    One more time into the breach

    I have wanted this since v1.5, so lets review what it needs.

    Worlds: NO NO NO!!!

    We should call them Settings. Few people map out the entire world, they map the gamable area. So if your game is set in Japan, you do The Island, the Seas, and vaguely where Korea and China are. If you are playing in a Feudal European game, you are just doing Europe and maybe the Holy Lands and England. And if your setting is odd enough (a fairy patch or a universe), it isn't a world at all.

    Setting needs to be in the navbar. There needs to be the setting homepage, where you will see each setting available.

    Each setting has its own Homepage, like a region (or what ever we end up calling that).  This page will have:
    * A codex and scroll title page (King Page).
    It will have a general summary and some defining/ explaing text.  You will be able to vote and comment upon the world itself. And you can add a general discussion in the scroll attached to it.

    *A codex like listing of all submissions. And this codex will be orderable by the owner of the page.
    In fact there will be a kind of stub that will let you add summary text in these lists.

    When you click the navbar (top and/ or current left side), you will get a listing of that type of submission in the world. So from the Kerren Page, you will click the NPC section and get a listing of all the Kerren NPCs.

    This is what we need at minimum.


  16. Re: V3.0 Worlds

    #16
    This was just brought from the archive because it was one of the original discussions that holds the seed of 3.0.

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