Voting/Experience System

1. Voting/Experience System

   #1

   ((If you haven't read this yet you may want to just breeze through a few posts and speed read. I have a completely new rewrite a few posts down that you should probably start with then peruse the comments))
   
   See webpage references after my thoughts. This is heavily based on their ideas with only a little original thought going into it by me. Only been chewing on it for about 5 hours.
   
   Idea in the rough stages but because I have seen a few successful site implementing the idea already I thought I would type it out and see how it looked in print and also to get your opinions. Want to mention I didn't go out looking for this. For the midterm in my Perl programming class we had to find 5 Perl resources and I stumbled across perlmonks and saw "Voting/Experience System" and obviously had to check it out. The following is a result of that exploring.
   
   Please do not prejudge and automatically cast the idea aside. I think there is some merit in it regardless of the initial reaction of some. ;) Not everything needs to be implemented, there are good ideas interspersed with the possible negatives. Enough disclaimers, can you tell I am nervous even bringing it up? Sounded pretty cool when I read it.
   
   Begin
   OK, everything is based on experience points. Experience points decide if/when you get to vote and what 'powers' you are given on the site. There will be 10-15 levels with almost every level giving something extra for the user to do on the site. As users participate in the site they will gain experience points. As their experience points grow more features and options will be accessible to them.
   
   Nobody can do anything to their own submission or comment.
   
   Experience
   Experience is gained and lost through submissions, comments, and votes on other people. For each positive vote on one of your submissions or comments there is a chance to earn some experience through it. Same for when you vote on somebody elses submission or comment, the author and you both have a chance to earn a random experience point from the vote. If you vote negatively on a submission the author that you voted down on has a chance to lose an experience point while the voter still has a chance to gain it. Experience points are random with varying degrees of possibility of gaining an experience depending on what the vote is on. For submissions the % chance will be greater then on a comment.
   
   You gain extra experience points for using all your available votes during a 24hr period.
   You gain extra experience points for logging in each 24hr period.
   Each submission gives you XP.
   Each comment gives you XP.
   Each vote has a chance to give you XP.
   Each vote on your submission or comment has a chance to give you XP.
   Each negative vote on submission or comment has a chance to remove XP.
   Each deleted submission or comment removes XP.
   Bonus XP during Quests. (explained below)
   Bonus XP for Blessings. (explained below)
   
   You also automatically gain an XP point for any comment and multiple XP points for a submission. Higher votes on submissions can give more XP. So submitting an excellent submission gets you instant XP plus a greater chance of earning more XP through votes. Poor submissions still let you gain an XP but the bad votes will in turn take it away. You will also lose XP if you post is deleted or removed for editing.
   
   
   Votes
   The main power gained through experience is the ability to vote which is gained at second level. Experience for the newbies will be through posts, comments, and votes on their submissions. Once they gain enough experience they will earn the right to vote on others.
   
   For each level, you are only allowed a finite amount of votes per day. As level increases, so does the amount of votes you are allowed to cast. Votes not only include voting on submissions, but also a + or - vote on comments. Because at the lower levels you only have so many votes, you take the vote more seriously then before. Every time a user uses all their allocated votes, they get an EXP bonus.
   
   We all know there are some bad or useless comments. We would now be able to vote negatively on them and possible take away experience from the person that posted it.
   
   Hall of Honor or name of your choice.
   At a later level users will be granted the power to add submissions to the Hall of Honor. I could replace the random submissions on the front page with submissions that earn this title. Possibly even another page with them as well with the front page giving a random Hall of Honor recipient frontpage honors if there are more then can fit on the frontpage.
   
   Once a user hits a level they will be given Hall of Honor points. These points allow the user to add submissions of their choice to the Hall of Honor. When given this title it goes to the Hall of Honor for a specified amount of time (day-3 days-week, whatever) and the person that put it there gets a small credit for it. The nominated site instantly earns XP for being chosen. Any number of people can nominate and renominate the same submission. You can nominate as many different submissions as you have Hall of Honor points. Once a user gives a submission Hall of Honor points, it cannot give them again to that submission.
   
   Those submissions that are nominated will always have a record that they were in the Hall of Honors. Perhaps a small little token graphic on their view page or something.
   
   
   Golden Submissions
   The highest honor a submission could be granted is the Golden Submission. It is given out only by the highest level users and admins. This is the page of chosen submissions that are in the top of their category and something to aspire to. Each Golden Submission must be unanimously voted on by a certain number of admins/power users.
   
   Level Advancement
   Exact level advancement to be determined but just to start the idea. Both experience and minimum submission requirements must be accomplished. Posting submissions / comments just to meet that requirement could also hurt you in experience which is why both are required to level up.
   
   Level---Votes per Day Authorized, Hall of Honor Points, Minimum Submission number to make level, minimum EXP to make level
   1---0, 0, 0, 0
   2---5, 0, 5, 50
   3---10, 0, 10, 100
   4---20, 1, 20, 200
   5---30, 1, 30, 350
   6---45, 2, 45, 600
   
   You get the point. As you get more levels, you get more votes, you earn Hall of Honor Points, and you have more submissions so it is actually sort of easy to continue to get experience.
   
   Quest
   Occasionally we can have a time period where certain types of submissions are worth bonus points if submitted during the allotted time frame. For instance NPCs have been neglected for awhile, we offer a "Quest" for NPCs and give bonus EXP to those that input a NPC during the time frame that the quest is going on.
   
   What you may earn with Experience
   Voting rights.
   Hall of Honor Points to spend
   Golden Submission voting privileges
   Option to flag other posts for review
   Option to vote on other posts removed for review
   Grant other users extra votes. (share their own perhaps)
   Blessing Points. The giving of XP by upper levels for an extremely good comment or submission.
   Moderation power I. Send a message to the Mods to review a submission for movement to the editing room.
   Moderation power II. Vote and comment to influence submissions in the editing room.
   Moderation power III. Approve or disapprove the return to the main site of editing room submission.
   Moderation power IV. Remove a submission directly (or approve a consideration for removal) and send it to the editing room without sending a message to ask other Mods.
   Mentorship (Once a certain level is attained then you have the expertise to offer your assistance to newbies that are struggling. A list of those willing to help can be posted so they can easily find those that want to help. Will be by PM or a special forum.)
   
   Above all I think this would be fun. It is one thing coming to a site and inputting ideas and getting yours critiqued. I love how the site is. I just think it might be fun to juice it up a little bit. We are all roleplayers obviously, so the idea of experience and levels is not new to us, it is pretty much expected in what we do. Levels is obviously a big deal throughout the web since every forum has them. People like to be in a community and they like to watch experience (posts) and their levels go up. I know I do to a point. This is just taking that one step further. We are a roleplaying site, it would not be out of character to implement an experience system. It still does not play a major factor in anything. At the beginning it solves the problem of erroneous voters since first timers don't have that right. They just can't pop in and do crazy voting. If they try and bypass that by just posting crap, well, chances are that they will not easily reach the next level because they will be getting negative experience (damage even) from those that vote down (or delete) their crap taking away their needed EXP to get to the voting level. It also gives some simple, but measureable rewards to those that do spend some time on the site. Admins already have that obviously, but for those that do continue to put things in with nothing but self satisfaction can at least feel like they are more part of the site. They get Hall of Honor points to push up their favorites and eventually are trusted with limited moderation ability. As the site grows I think we will appreciate a wider moderating group and I think other users might appreciate the additional interaction that they have with the site and make them come back.
   
   I may not be 100% on a lot of the ideas, but I think there is some solid things in there.
   
   Let me know what you think :).
   
   =====
   
   http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Voting%2FExperience%20System
   http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Honor%20Roll
   ---
   http://www.perlmonks.com/index.pl?node=Voting%2FExperience%20System

2. Voting/Experience System

   #2

   By the way, I am sort of taking my time with the rebuild. I only intend on doing it once because I have a lot of other things I want to do and while I love building and rebuilding, I would rather get it all out there in one fell swoop so I can move on in life :shock: . I have an excellent start on it and the admin portion is coming on fine, there are no worries about finishing it. More tweeking needs to be done on the plots before I will even consider porting it over to the other submission sections so there is work to be done, but in August is my last final and I am done with college till I move in March. That gives me a good 6 months (give or take) to totally immerse myself. I am hoping to have the site finished by November, and then tweaks and small editions after we go live for another couple months. By the time I move in March I am hoping that the site will be Golden.
   
   My point is, don't look at this as something that is going to take forever and it is not worth your or my time. Don't worry about the difficulty or how complex it might take to make it work. I have taken enough damn college to figure out pretty much anything at this point, I am not worried about getting the ideas working, I am worried about getting the ideas that will help the site excel.
   
   Look at it as an opportunity to come up with ideas that are cool, useful, and fun...let me worry about the details.
   
   
   Thanks for your patience through my rambling :!: :!:

3. Voting/Experience System

   #3

   Yay Perl!
   
   I am not wholly opposed to this idea.
   
   Things I like about it are:
   
   * Quest - useful for stressing those dead areas that people might otherwise forget existed.
   * Golden Votes - this is the sort of harmless elitism that will make good submitters feel good about their submissions and will provide us with a bank of "recommended material" to display to people, to show them that not all our posts are elfkinesque.
   
   I think these sort of things would maybe encourage people to post submissions. Even if they were encouraged to post half-baked ideas just to get XP, it would not be a disaster as the system is designed to weed out that kind of behaviour.
   
   However, I think certain actions (i.e. commenting and voting) are integral to the site's purpose and functionality and everyone who signs up should get those rights automatically. Partly it's a certain socialist instinct in me, but also a concern that if we make people post submissions before commenting/voting they may be less inclined to contribute to the (sometimes immensely constructive) discussions which follow a good plot or NPC. Consider the following possibility: an experienced gamer takes a cursory look at the site and finds a submission to his tastes. He uses it in his game and it works well, though he has a few suggestions for improvement. He wants to post a short comment to this effect, but can't until he's posted a submission of his own. He loses interest and goes away.
   
   Moderation rights are a different matter. I think that minor moderative tasks (like flagging for review or influencing submissions under edit) could quite happily be farmed out to people who've proven they can produce good submissions. It would make them feel as though they'd achieved some degree of status on the site, and would reduce the workload on admins. I don't think deletion should be an option for anyone except those appointed by Strolen as mods/admin: it's such a final, decisive power to wield that it should only be used by those with enough experience.
   
   In summary, I think there's nothing wrong with the idea as long as it doesn't touch commenting/voting or the higher admin rights.
   
   Do bear in mind the trouble it could bring with it! The endless discussions of how XP is worked out? why haven't I been awarded XP for this/that? etc. This is a site for gamers. Many gamers like to quibble over rules and interpretation...
   
   ephe!

4. Voting/Experience System

   #4

   If it wasn't clear, the only thing limited is voting. Comments and Submissions would be available to anybody who signed up with voting being the only thing witheld until level 2.
   
   The "deletion" rights that a mod would get would only be the right to remove a submission from the mainstream and put it in the "edit pile" where the author and all mods with that right have access to comment on, and try and help the author correct the reason the submission was removed. The only people that will have the final delete rights are those that have it now. But once a user hits the high level required to get that right, I wouldn't feel nervous about giving them that ability. After all, worse that happens is they abuse it, we put the submission back, and take away that privilidge from them. At that high level I am hoping they got there with some common sense though and that wouldn't be a factor.
   
   Voting: I was/am a little unsure about the initial no voting thing too. They have it set at 50 XP and like 25 submissions before you earn the right to vote. I think that is a lot which is why I arbitrarily made it 5 submissions/comments and 50 XP. (maybe 50 is too high as well )
   
   You get 1 XP for each comment. 2-3 XP for each submission. If you have a good submission or excellent comment you can be blessed by members with that ability giving you instant XP not to mention anybody voting on your submissions. Members can also give you votes to use if the new user is instantly a bonus to the site. Also they get an XP for everyday they login.
   
   Justification is that voting is a privilidge and for an author, recieving votes affects their XP so allowing just anybody to vote might not be a great idea. Having voting as a privilege turns it into a perk for the site to so when you earn the voting right you really have *earned* that right. You have done some good submissions and comments and the community has saw this and rewarded you for it. It is also a public moderation thing to keep those occasionaly jerks that may vote on something just to vote. Won't stop it completely but the integrity of the votes is higher.
   
   

   Many gamers like to quibble over rules and interpretation...

   
   
   Many gamers find that fun too. We are an inquisitive bunch and rightfully so. We all have to be creative and like to know how things work. There will always be a few that have issues with everything, there will be others that enjoy a good natured argument about details. I sometimes welcome the conflict on this site because it means the are interested and it matters to them. For the few that I lose over it, oh well. I think there might be more to gain overall though.

5. Voting/Experience System

   #5

   I give this idea my 100%. It will make this site more than a 'resource' but a game in itself! It will intice users to post more often, and to join into the site.
   
   First, I'd like to put forth a small warning however: I am picturing in the future, some kalabaresque members, voting themselves up to get power, then abusing said power. We'll just have to keep an eye out for it.
   
   And one more thing: make the current admins (You, moon, ephe, manfred, Ria, Agar) a separate category which cannot be voted down, or at least cannot lose powers if they lose experience. Once again im picturing those kalabaresque people bieng 'cool' and pulling down the admins.
   
   All in all, sounds very fun. I particuarly like the honour wall and quests ideas.
   
   Of course im sure you realise this might mean a LOT more programming for you Good luck.

6. Voting/Experience System

   #6

   If it wasn't clear, the only thing limited is voting. Comments and Submissions would be available to anybody who signed up with voting being the only thing witheld until level 2.

   
   
   Oops! My mistake, I didn't read it carefully enough :)
   
   Thanks for the clarifications. From what you said it sounds sound. I'd say give it a try, it could prove to be interesting. As Shadoweagle says, good luck with the coding.
   
   ephe!

7. Dynomite!

   #7

   What a fantastic idea!
   It would be real motivation to be active on the site, plus a tangible stat that actually would mean something, instead of just for fun.
   I mean, just for fun is good too, but some people need a reason for their stats.
   
   But anyway, great idea! I think it's fantastic.
   
   I have a question or two though-
   1. Will the "Big Movers" (i.e., yourself, myself, Moon) have to restart again at level 1?
   2. (Unrelated to levels) Will our posts on this site be transferred to the other site? I mean, will I be able to look in the other site's archives and find "In the House of the Yellow Priest" or "Four Arms"?

   
   
   Glad you like it. A lot of details to be worked out and a comprehensive FAQ/Rules will be made public before I even start coding so stay tuned for that.
   
   Those are very serious questions that you have brought up and ones that are going to require some deep thinking on how to do it.
   
   First off, I think there will be retroactive XP awarded for all past submissions and comments. You, for instance, will probably be instantly jacked up to a decent level, as well as many others that have a lot of submissions and comments already.
   
   I am also tossing around a "Sponsor" type idea where everybody will be level one to begin with and all the old posts will be temporarily in an "archive" portion of the site.
   
   Everybody will have so many sponsor points a day and they can use those to bring old submissions over to the new site. The moving would give the author experience at that point and possibly even the comment authors, although I am not sure. Perhaps if you want to add the old comments to the new site that would cost Sponsor points to and grant the comment author their experience points when it is moved.
   
   It would be nice to take the movement of the old submissions a little slower so we can once again bring them to the front and be able to vote on them with the new system and give them some new air time. All sponsored submissions would be treated just like new submissions.
   
   That way everybody gets a little taste of each level as well so when they are finally promoted to level X they know a little about the other levels instead of just being slammed up to the top of the XP tree.
   
   Lots to think about. If you have any ideas for it all of course....
   
   

8. Vote/XP Rewrite

   #8

   OK, everything is based on experience points. Experience points decide if/when you get to vote and what 'powers' you are given on the site. Each level will give something extra for the user to do on the site. As users participate and vote in the site they will gain experience points. As their experience points grow more features and options will be accessible to them.
   
   Nobody can do anything to his or her own submission or comment.
   
   Experience
   Experience is gained and lost through submissions, comments, and votes on other people. For each positive vote on one of your submissions or comments there is a chance to earn some experience through it. Same for when you vote on somebody elses submission or comment, the author and you both have a chance to earn a random experience point from the vote. If you vote negatively on a submission the author that you voted down on has a chance to lose an experience point while the voter still has a chance to gain it. Experience points are random with varying degrees of possibility of gaining an experience depending on what the vote is on. For submissions the % chance will be greater then on a comment.
   
   You gain extra experience points for logging in during each 24hr period.
   Each submission gives you XP.
   Each comment gives you XP.
   Each vote has a chance to give you XP.
   Each vote on your submission or comment has a chance to give you XP.
   Each negative vote on submission or comment has a chance to remove XP.
   Each deleted submission or comment removes XP.
   Bonus XP during Quests. (explained below)
   Bonus XP for Blessings. (explained below)
   Bonus XP for submission nominated to Hall of Honor.
   
   You also automatically gain 1 XP point for any comment and multiple XP points for a submission. Higher votes on submissions can give more XP. So submitting an excellent submission gets you instant XP plus a greater chance of earning more XP through votes. Poor submissions will still give you the instant XP for putting in a submission, but the negative votes may very well harm you in the long run. You will also lose the instant XP if you post is deleted or removed for editing.
   
   Votes
   The main power gained through experience is the ability to vote, which is gained at second level. Experience for the newbies will be through posts, comments, and votes by others on their submissions. Once they gain enough experience they will earn the right to vote on others.
   
   For each level, you are only allowed a finite amount of votes per day. As level increases, so does the amount of votes you are allowed to cast. Votes not only include voting on submissions, but also a + or - vote on comments. Because at the lower levels you only have so many votes, you take the vote more seriously then before. Casting votes gives you and the author a chance at gaining XP.
   
   We all know there are some bad or useless comments. Votes is a self moderating way to try and stop those kinds of comments from happening. The author can still give whatever comment they want, but if it is in bad taste or not useful then others may vote negatively on that comment taking away experience from the author. This will hopefully make authors thing a little harder before they put in a comment.
   
   Each person will only be allowed to vote on each comment/submission one time. If the author does an update that is approved by a moderator then the votes will be reset for that submission and they will be able to vote 2+ times in these circumstances.
   
   Justification is that voting is a privilege and for an author, receiving votes affects their XP so allowing just anybody to vote might not be a great idea. Having voting as a privilege turns it into a perk for the site to so when you earn the voting right you really have *earned* that right. You have done some good submissions and comments and the community has seen this and rewarded you for it. The integrity of the votes is higher and those that may not respect the system cannot just come in "off the street" and affect the voting.
   
   Hall of Honor
   At a certain level users will be granted the power to add submissions to the Hall of Honor. Nominating a submission for the Hall of Honor gives an instant bonus 3 XP. Hall of Honor choices will be permanently identified with a list of who nominated them viewable from that submissions view page. Hall of Honor choices will be placed on the front page of the Citadel until another Hall of Honor nominee replaces them. Not sure how many will available on the front page right now.
   
   Any number of people can nominate the same submission. You can nominate as many different submissions as you have Hall of Honor points. Once a user gives a submission Hall of Honor points, it cannot give them again to that submission. Choose your Hall of Honor recipients carefully as you will always be identified as choosing them.
   
   Golden Submissions
   The highest honor a submission could be granted is the Golden Submission. It is given out only by the highest level users and administrators. This is the page of chosen submissions that are in the top of their category and something to aspire to. Each Golden Submission must be unanimously voted on by a certain number of admins/power users.
   
   Quests
   Occasionally we can have a time period where certain types of submissions are worth bonus points if submitted during the allotted time frame. For instance, if NPCs have been neglected for a while, we offer a "Quest" for NPCs and give bonus EXP to those that input a NPC during the time frame of the quest. Quests can be for certain submission category or for certain types of submissions in those categories. Quest for Water Plots or a Quest for Shields for instance.
   
   Level Advancement
   Both experience and minimum submission requirements must be accomplished. Posting submissions / comments just to meet that requirement could also hurt you in experience which is why both are required to level up.
   
   Numbers shown are the minimum requirements for that level. Both XP and Submission requirements must be filled to make the level.
   

   
   
   Level  | XP | Submis | Votes | HoH | Blessings | Sponsor 
   
   1         0      0	    0	    0	   0	   0
   
   2        35      10	   5	    0	   0	   1
   
   3        75      20		9		 0		0		2
   
   4       150      40		14		1		0		2
   
   5       250      65		19		1		0		3
   
   6       550      90		25		2		0		3
   
   7      1000     125		30		2		2		4
   
   8      1650     200		35		3		2		4
   
   9      2500     300		40		3		4		5
   
   10     4000     450		45		4		4		5
   
   11     6000     600		50		4		8		6
   
   12     9000     850		55		5		8		6
   
   13    11000    1000		60		6		10		7
   
   14    15000    1500		65		6		10		7
   
   

   
   
   What you may earn with Experience
   Level 2 - Voting rights.
   Level 2 – Can update your Stats page with personal information. (personal webpage)
   Level 3 - Moderation power I. Send a message to the Mods to review a submission for movement to the editing room.
   Level 4 - Hall of Honor Points to spend
   Level 5 -
   Level 6 - Grant other users extra votes
   Level 7 - Blessing Points. The giving of bonus XP for an extremely good comment.
   Level 8 - Moderation power II. Vote and comment to influence submissions in the editing room.
   Level 9 - Moderation power III. Approve or disapprove the return to the main site of submissions in editing room.
   Level 10 - Golden Submission voting privileges
   Level 11 - Moderation power IV. Remove a submission directly (or approve a consideration for removal) and send it to the editing room.
   
   XP Distribution
   We all know getting XP during a real roleplaying game can be a mysterious, confusing, and arbitrary form of reward. The site needs to have moods and quirks as well so that everything about the gaining of XP isn't already a known and defined thing. There are a few things that give automatic XP and there are others that only offer a chance of XP.
   
   - Instant XP for a main category submission.
   -- 2 XP instantly just for the submission
   -- Probability for up to 2 bonus XP depending on the length of submission. % chance for 2 XP increases with length. % chance increases up to a point for 1 XP, once that letter count is passed the 1 XP is given and the % chance for a second starts to increase.
   - Instant 1 XP for a comment
   - 50% chance for 1 XP for logging in each 24hr period
   - For level 2 and level 3, if you use all your votes in a given day you have a 50% chance of gaining 1 XP
   - Blessing from other members
   - Hall of Heroes nomination grants instantly 5 XP to author and 1 XP to nominee
   - Golden Submission grants instantly 20 XP to author and 1 XP to nominee
   - Voting on Comments:
   -- Voter gets 33% chance of earning 1 XP
   -- Author gets 50% chance of gaining or losing 1XP depending on vote
   - Voting on Submissions
   -- Voter gets a 75% chance of earning 1 XP for each vote on a main submission
   -- Author:
   ---- Vote of 1 = 75% chance of losing 1 XP
   ---- Vote of 2 = 25% chance of losing 1 XP
   ---- Vote of 3 = 25% chance of gaining 1 XP
   ---- Vote of 4 = 75% chance of gaining 1 XP
   ---- Vote of 5 = gain 1 XP

9. Replay from Iain

   #9

   Hi Strolen,
   
   Thanks for sending this to me. Actually, I like the idea of it (gasp!). Overall, it seems like a good idea for the reasons you mentioned. Here are my thoughts:
   
   1) Does everyone start at zero or is it retrospective? I would definitely favour making it retrospective: for example, it would seem crazy to make someone like Manfred or Ephe who have been around for ages start at level zero. Given how hard it would be to sort this out exactly, how about just allocating people with the amount of experience and level that you and the other moderators feel they deserve. The amount of submissions they have is easily measured and they then just start earning experience from then on.
   
   2) It should be totally independent from the forum rankings.
   
   3) There should be certain powers and priveleges which should be independent from the experience system. The most obvious of these is yourself: as the website creator, you ultimately have full authority (the first circle, as Manfred said). I also think it might be a good idea to reserve the highest moderation priveleges (e.g. deleting of comments/submissions) as invitation only (i.e. the way it is now) to be decided by the existing moderators and ultimately you. This is because a) some people might be great at creating submissions but not very responsible and b) you don't want to lose a good moderator just because he's going through a bad spell and submitted a couple of poor submissions. However, I think that earning the right to flag submission for moderation, extra voting, golden star nominating priveleges, etc. is a good idea.
   
   4) What about awful submissions (i.e. those which are deleted)? The deletion of a submission should carry a very large experience penalty (i.e. greater than that which would be earned just from poor votes/comments).
   
   5) Negative experience and levels? Yes, I think so. If you have negative experience you have to earn it back so it takes longer. If you go too low, you start getting in to negative levels. Things that could occur with negative levels:
   Your submissions are automatically sent to a special folder and flagged for moderators.
   Your submissions are automatically sent to a special folder and flagged for moderators. They do not appear on the site until a moderator has approved.
   
   6) Where is the cutoff limit for zero experience? I suggest it should be at 2.5. This is because this is decidedly average: a 3 star submission is something that contributes to the site but isn't that wonderful (and hence only earns you a little exp) whereas a 2 star is poor, but does have redeeming features (and hence only loses you a little). I would also suggest that the amount earned is not linear: e.g. something like 3x (ranking - 2.5)^(1.5) (or something like this).
   
   7) A couple of other ideas for bonus ext:
   A submission that gets 10 or more comments not your own (i.e. it may not be amazing but it's generated a lot of discussion and interest: what we want).
   A submission that has a rating of 5.00 with 3 or more votes (very hard to get).
   
   Ideas. What to do with them. A minor amount of exp gained maybe, and one idea counts for 1/3 of a submission in terms of min. no. of submissions needed to gain a level?
   
   Anyway, hope these ideas are some help,
   
   P.S. Hopefully I'll get the chance to post some things at some point - I have quite erratic internet access over the summer.
   
   Iain

10. Things to Ponder

    #10

    Current Submissions and the New Site Structure: Sponsor Points
    I am thinking that it might be fun (?) to start everybody at level 0 and have 0 submissions of any type to start off the new site. Starting completely from scratch on everything really. Because of the new database structure I had to implement I can't just move over anything easily anyway. I was also dwelling a little bit on the voting as well with the new system showing votes and the old not, sooo…
    
    Thinking about having so many sponsor points a day per person depending on their level, which they can use those to bring old submissions over to the new site. Until a submission is sponsored it will remain in the "archive" in the old site. This might be an opportunity to just sort of ignore some other poor posts or suggest them for editing. The limiting of how many are moved over will allow them to hopefully be re-reviewed and re-voted on and give them another shake. It will also prompt people to go to the archives and try to look up some good submissions to sponsor.
    
    The author of the submission will not be able to sponsor his or her own submissions.
    
    The author would get the normal XP that they would get for a submission at the point when it is sponsored. The sponsoring will remove all the old votes and hits. The sponsor is required to vote on it when they sponsor it.
    
    It would be nice to take the movement of the old submissions a little slower so we can once again bring them to the front and be able to vote on them with the new system and give them some new air time. All sponsored submissions would be treated just like new submissions.
    
    Everybody starting at Level 0 also gives everybody a taste of what the lower levels entail instead of being instantly jacked up into the higher realms of levelhood. I think it would be beneficial to experience that.
    
    Still ironing out the details on this one but I am heavily leaning towards this way of moving over to the new site.
    ----
    While I am on the Sponsorship idea, wondering if new submissions could maybe be done the same way. Before they enter the "main" site they first go to the archive and have to be sponsored. Quick thought that I am not too sure about.
    
    Ranking System
    Need to come up with a ranking system to use. I started a new thread in the idea scroll in the hopes that something will come up that we can use.
    
    Vote Visibility
    The other sites don't allow you to see the votes until you have voted yourself on the 'nodes'. Not sure I like that, but there are many many there that are defending it so I consider it worthy or more thought.
    
    Major Category Differentiation
    Basically there is a big difference in requirements between NPC, Items, Plots, and Settings. There are some users that excel in one section but rarely touch another. Everybody has their specialties.
    
    So would it be worth it to create different "classes" per se that log experience in each of the different major categories? So Shadoweagle, who has awesome items but nothing in some other categories, might be a high level person in the Item category but a low level person in the plot section.
    
    Then you have Moon and others that are pretty much "multi-classed" and have a higher lever in each of the categories.
    
    The problem with this is that they might be spread thin over many "classes" and so never reach a high level in anything. Not sure how to solve that problem, but I think there is an idea in there somewhere.
    
    Special Awards and Recognition
    Already have the Golden Submission and the Hall of Honor, but was thinking of a simple graphic or text that would give recognition to a number of posts in each category by a person. Bronze Sword for 10 items, Silver for 25, and Gold for 50 or something. Just something simple,, unobtrusive, and automated that will turn up in their profile page when it is visited. A set of awards for each category.
    
    Scratchpad
    Available from the users profile page, just a section of the site where they can put any ideas in progress or anything else they want to put in temporary storage. Maybe on the input page of any submission I can have so that once it is written down and maybe they get disturbed or maybe they decide it isn't as good as it could be, then they can click on the and it will save everything they worked on so they can come back to it later. All works stored in the scratchpad would be available from the profile page.
    
    Bonus for Discussion
    Was thinking about giving an XP bonus to those submissions that generate 10+ comments. Usually those kind of threads really get the creative juices going and can spark some great ideas. (some are spam, I know, but the voting system will hopefully stop those kind of lists of comments)
    
    Chatbox
    Or shoutbox as they are known throughout the web. Thinking about that.
    
    Rank and Voting Effect
    I think it is VB that has a reputation stat. If your XP is lower then the person you are voting on then your vote doesn't count against their experience. If your XP is higher then who you are voting on, then it does effect you.
    
    Not sure if I like that premise as is, but perhaps if a high-level person votes on your submission then the chance of the author gaining experience from it should increase. Like if voter is Level 3 then author gets 30% chance of XP but if the voter is Level 9 then they get 75% chance of 1 XP.
    
    Editing your Submissions
    Does being able to edit your submission once there are votes on it compromise the integrity of the votes and comments already made?
    
    If a plot sucked, and we voted and said so, then they updated it into an awesome plot, then what? Should all updates be moderator approved before they are made public? Should all votes and comments be reset? Should votes be reset and cleared, comments left, but put in a delimiter showing a separation from before and after the update?
    
    Grant Insanity/Special Power
    Was looking through my Palladium book and saw their extensive insanity tables and thought to myself, hmmm. Just another silly benefit of levels but what if we were to cast instanities on each other and maybe even the small cantrips that we came up with. Haven't got beyond putting them on the author's stat page, but maybe little things could happen in the Citadel if you have an insanity placed on you. For instance, we could use real phobias like insects, and possible put some random text in a place that is visible but does not really bother the viewing of the citadel, or we can have cantrips that somebody can do like casting the color red on somebody, then the page background is turned to red on them.
    
    Was trying to come up with something that authors could do to other authors just for fun. Maybe this would be used in lieu of them purposely downvoting if there is a little spite going on as well. An attention diverter if you will.
    
    Was thinking 2-3 XP for a random insanity. 5 XP for one chosen from a list.
    Curing the insanity would take a little bit more then what was spent on it.
    For each giving and trying to cure an insanity there is only a 50% chance of it working or being cured.
    
    Could do a special power one too.
    
    Roll up a Character
    Ok, not really. But was thinking that each person could choose a type of the four characters represented by the Guilds.
    Could also do weapon proficencies.
    Once they have a "author" put together they gain small bonuses to their XP if they create a submission that they are proficient in or of their same character class.
    
    Don't have that idea fully fleshed out because I am not sure how to give bonuses to plots or settings. Weapons is easy obviously, but if you are going to limit extra XP to knife submissions, how do you limit a setting or a plot in regards to giving XP? Don't want to make the items the only one with an XP advantage either because I don't want the others neglected by XP hounds. Will have to find a balance. Perhaps plots could be City Lore, Water Lore, etc. so it would depend on the setting. There are a lot of "Any" plots though and Any Lore just doesn't seem to cut it. Same for settings.

11. Voting/Experience System

    #11

    Keywords for FAQs and Tutorials
    I plan on having a fairly comprehensive FAQ and Tutoral system with the new site with many of the information that is in the forums, and more. So having this I think we can create a rather extensive and comprehensive list of linkable words that will automatically link to a part of the tutorial.
    
    So, instead of going on an on about spelling or stats, instead we can just say "Stats" and link to the tutorial of FAQ describing, in detail, why we don't like stats or how to do spell check on the submissions.
    
    This can either be in the comment itself or perhaps I will allow mods/admins to have a small area below the submission to do these links when the submission has obvioulsy gone against set guidelines.
    
    User Suggestions for Submission
    The author of the submission can input other suggested submissions to be used in conjunction with it. This will allow others to be able to suggest submissions as well. They will either be shown like on the current frontpage in a right side navigation box, or they can be shown like the current suggestions but separated by them. The person that made the suggestion will be seen with the suggestion for accountability.
    
    Game Specific Stats
    The option to include game specific stats in a submission. It will not be visible with the normal viewing but there will be a link like "D20 Stats" to show what is available. Clicking them will allow you to see them inline with the rest of the submission. I think I will only allow one type of stat per submission although I thought about allowing any number of stats for each submission "D20 Stats, AD&D 2ed Stats" etc for one submission.
    
    Level Announcer
    The level/XP/Vote script will run once a day distributing XP and votes and such. When that happens it will also update the levels. The level announcer will be a page of all those people that have made levels that day with a link to whatever submission (comment/vote/update) that gave them the XP that gave them the next level.
    
    Just another way to link to more submissions.

12. Voting/Experience System

    #12

    Aaaaaaaaaaalrighty then. Six pages, two beers, and a partial bag of tortilla chips later, I've got your responce. I was quite enthusiastic about being involved in the update, even if only in a peripherial manner. 8)
    
    I'm going to try to respond in the order of what you sent me.
    
    I think the idea of 'growing XP' is an interesting, and good idea. I llok forward to seeing how it developes.
    
    I also agree that aside from deletion and editing, that no one can do anything to their own submissions. Just keeps everything kosher.
    
    There could be a potential problem with the voting system, or more precisely with the abuse of the voting system. Right now it is rare to see a submission rank a five, it is something to strive for in my opinion, and when I got my first five I actually cheered out loud. I was stoked! Unfortunately I can see a proliferation of 4 and 5 point rankings popping up between members who know one another, just to help the other person out. It is what a friend would do, so the devil says.
    
    I think that removing the XP gained for deleted posts is a good idea. I can see people pumping crap submissions, gaining rank, and dumping them before negative feedback comes around and taps them out. You get two for submitting, you loose 2 for deleting.
    
    A question to think about on the editing. Is there a point difference between a major edit, as opposed to cosmetic (punctuation, spelling, capitalization) editing. Perhaps, the submission would be reset to 0 on votes and counts in the event of an edit, no matter how slight.
    
    Votes are currency, and experience gets you votes.
    
    Voting on comments, I like the idea. It might rememdy the snide and sometimes nasty comments that some people leave without constructive criticism, or trying to give a positive direction the author can follow.
    
    As for limiting voting, i think it is a good idea, but perhaps only registered members could vote, no one can vote anonymusly. These level 1 newbies would be restricted, but they would still be able to vote, maybe only once per 24 hour period. Earning something always makes it worth so much more. I cannot agree more on that point. :D
    
    I like the Hall of Honors idea, it has me thinking of what kind of submission would i have to do to get into it. I wouldnt want it to replace the random items that are on the current page, i think that keeps the archive in circulation, as it were. As it is, usually only the newest subs seem to get attention, along with whatever hits in the first page or so of the section pages. Perhaps the HoH could be a side bar like the new submissions? Just an idea.
    
    Identifying sponsors of HoH submissions could be a double edged weapon. Someone could feasibly cater an item to a certain high ranking member, who would garner support for it, until it got in. This is all hypothetical. Besides, if everyone is going to start out at 0 again, it is going to be a while before anyone can start nominating for the HoH. :shock:
    
    Ah, the Golden Submission, it works on so many different levels. I support this idea whole-heartedly.
    
    I also think that the Quest is a GREAT idea. There are nearly 300 items, as compared to just over 40 encounters, and 50 some odd settings. I havent really looked at the composition of the items, but I am sure they are skewed in some manner also. Are there very many shields, or magic short swords? What about non-combat oriented items?
    
    The levels look good to me, except giving the initiates at least 1 vote, so they don't feel powerless, or without a voice, or whatever they would claim for being denied.
    
    Sponsoring from the old site, I think this is a good idea, an almost archeological expression of the gems and junk of the site. At a measured pace, the old pieces can be cycled through while the dross, by process of elimination is left behind. Good that an author cannot sponsor their own, old pieces.
    
    Sponsorship for initial posting, i dont know about. That seems like it might send people away, making the sight seem more political and clique-ish, rather than a free place to submit ideas. It could also be the end of the really really bad posts like the metal gloves that could make you really strong except that they cut your hands off instead.
    
    Voting ID is an interesting concept. With ID, you know voted what, most of us have gotten into the habit of listing it in our responces, one of which i had to edit, since i gave a sub a 3/3 rating, instead of a 3/5. Oops, my bad. :roll:
    
    Classes and levels. You are right that everyone follows different flavors in their submissions. I'm fairly even across the board, but I've only listed 1 general idea, but like you said, there are people like Shadoweagle who can pump out awesome items, but cant produce NPC's of the same calibre.
    
    If you have a strong suit, you shouldn't be punished for other weaknesses. In Shadoweagle's case, SE is great at items, and could concievable rank as a level higher in concerns to level abilites, but it only applies to the item field, and would rank as 1 level lower in all of the other fields. Play to the strong suit.
    
    Multi-class submitters wouldnt be penalized for their lack of specialty, but neither would they gain any specific bonus for being more spread out. I think their submissions might be better as they have more rounded perspectives on their work. I dont know, it could be the jack of all trades and master of none.
    
    Make a character sheet??? Gah! :shock:
    
    I havent made a full AD&D character sheet in a long time :lol:
    
    I dont know if i like the idea of assembling a character from bonuses generated by postings. As a general rule, I dont post many weapons, or armor, so I would end up on the loosing end there. On the other hand, that would encourage me to make a few of said items to fill that out.
    
    Kudos for the proposed system of FAQ and a tutorial. It would be useful in the extreme. I am computer literate, but only to a sixth grade level, or so I tell people. Ha!
    
    User Suggestions for Submissions
    Great idea, I mean Corvus the Mad has been getting some mad attention, and if multiple people could link things together, that could be an interesting option. There would have to be some responcibility, or it could turn into a form of Submission advertising - if you thought that item was good, check out my items, they're better!
    
    Good grammar, syntax, and spelling
    The only real thing I can say is I wish people didn't think these were dirty words. I've run an online game that recently puttered out after three rewarding years (LAbyNite@Yahoogroups.com if you want to look) and some of the posters had the absolute worst composition skills. Tenses changed, spelling was horrid, and punctuation was non-existant. Everytime someone write u instead of you, my circuits sizzle!
    
    A quick word on stats, stats are evil, ask any college student taking Statistics and they will tell you, at great length, until you have to subdue them and run away.
    
    I think the Level announcer is a novel idea. Linking submissions is a good idea. I like links better than trolling through 12 to 15 pages of entries.
    
    Special awards and recognition
    First thing that came to mind was eBay. There is an icon denoting members who have been active less than 30 days, as well as icons denoting power sellers, long time sellers, and othe things. I could imagine Shadoweagle having a dagger or sword symbol denoting Items strength and whatnot. Ria might have a gold bust for 50+ NPC's and nothing else, so on and so forth.
    
    Less than 10 posts
    black outline
    11-20
    solid black
    21-50
    silver solid
    51+
    gold solid
    
    This could apply for each category
    A tree outline for settings, a sword for items, a profile bust for NPC's a chess piece like a bishop, castle or queen for plots, a special symbol to link to the personal page. Encounters could be a shield.
    
    Quick sidenote
    I think the idea of a critters/monster category could be a good idea. Sometimes a beastie comes to mind that really doesnt fit anywhere else gets shelved, or abused into another category. I am sure there would be runs of billy-badass monsters of supreme cosmic power, but I think the voting system might take them down to a reasonable level, but this is my own speculation.
    I would suggest a spells category as well, but I know that such a category would be absolutely bombarded with the worst sort of fantasy/pulp/manure. I've gone through too many net spellbooks looking at the plethora of ultramegablaster spells that kill gods, alter realms, and shatter the rules. Too many black versions of fireballs, magic missles, and lightning bolts. Sad, very sad. For every innovative and new spell there are literally 99 spells that are either rehash, or outright barf. :oops:
    
    I like the idea of higher ranking submitters having 'heavier' votes than lower ranking members.
    
    I don't really understand about the insanities and cantrips other than the idea sounds like alot of fun. :lol: On the other hand, having met certifiably crazy people...well they are scary as hell.
    
    I hope this helps you out.
    
    Peace
    Scras

13. Voting/Experience System

    #13

    Authors Can Delete Comments
    You put in a submission that has some bad grammar but otherwise it is OK. Somebody puts in a comment that says nothing about the post but says "You can't spell." or something else just as useless. Or somebody digresses about something that has nothing to do with the submission.
    
    The suggesstion is to allow the Author of the submission will have the right to DELETE comments under their submission that they feel are not relevant or useful. So basically the original submission owner is the moderator of the comments under it. So the grammar cut can be deleted by the owner and so can the digression that means nothing. Admins and Mods will still have this capability but we again leave it more up to the community to moderate their own stuff.
    
    This will increase the thought involved with those that post comments as well. Instead of immunity of comments and free XP for them they have to be just as careful as the original authors if they want their stuff to stay and keep their XP.
    
    Deleted Comments/Submission XP Loss
    Perhaps they should not only use what XP they gained by inputting their submission or comment but also incur an extra XP loss if we have to delete their submission. Otherwise there is nothing gained or lost by posting crap, they just get it deleted and lose something they didn't have anyway, but if you take away an extra XP when the admins (or submission authors when you talk about comments) are forced to delete something you will think twice about sacrificing XP just to be rude.

14. Voting/Experience System

    #14

    Can' edit comments after reply
    able the edit on anything that has a reply.
    
    Maybe mainly on comments or allow them to it with an : or something.

15. Voting/Experience System

    #15

    Cannot edit comments after reply
    Disable the edit on anything that has a reply.
    
    Maybe mainly on comments or only allow them to add to it with an edit: label or something.

    
    
    Hate this. It disturbs the way I have to do articles and long posts at work. An "editied on xx/xx/xx by XXXXXXXXX is fine." but I hate frozen work.
    
    JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but .... JMO, but ....

16. Voting/Experience System

    #16

    What? What are you talking about. I didn't write that...see, look at my post.

17. Voting/Experience System

    #17

    Ok, im still working through it all, but the following thought that you posted got me thinking:
    
    Major Category Differentiation
    Basically there is a big difference in requirements between NPC, Items, Plots, and Settings. There are some users that excel in one section but rarely touch another. Everybody has their specialties.
    
    So would it be worth it to create different "classes" per se that log experience in each of the different major categories? So Shadoweagle, who has awesome items but nothing in some other categories, might be a high level person in the Item category but a low level person in the plot section.
    
    Then you have Moon and others that are pretty much "multi-classed" and have a higher lever in each of the categories.
    
    The problem with this is that they might be spread thin over many "classes" and so never reach a high level in anything. Not sure how to solve that problem, but I think there is an idea in there somewhere.

    
    
    It got me thinking of perhaps a little addition that could be put in for some extra interest (The thought was half-inspired by a computer game called Heroes of Might and Magic 4, actually) :
    
    

    
    
    [ Names with () surrounding them are names Im unsure of]
    
    |_____________|_____Items_______|____Characters____|____Lifeforms____|____Settings____|____Plots____|
    
    | Items       |    Gadgeteer    |    Blacksmith    |  (Golem crafter)|   Trap-artist  |  Merchant   |
    
    | Characters  |   Blacksmith    |       Hero       |    Beastmaster  |     Lord       |    King     |
    
    | Lifeforms   | (Golem Crafter) |    Beastmaster   |    Conjurer     |  (Naturalist)  |(Forest lord)|
    
    | Settings    |    Trap-artist  |       Lord       |  (Naturalist)   | Constructionist|  Emperor    |
    
    | Plots       |    Merchant     |       King       |  (Forest Lord)  |    Emperor     |     Diety   |
    
    
    
    ||Special Class||- Dungeon Master -||
    
    
    
    

    
    
    Ok, now for the explaination. For every (insert percentage here) of a persons posts in a certain category, that category becomes a main section for them.
    
    
    So say that the base percentage for a main category was 30%, and 40% of Harolds posts were in Lifeforms, and 32% of his posts are in Characters, Harold becomes a Beastmaster. The title 'Beastmaster' appears under his name in the forums (for example, where your 'Ignorance Incarnate' message is), and therefore everyone in the forums knows he specialises in characters and creatures.
    
    This can be left to just that stage, for a fun aspect, but what about this as well:
    
    I see that level 5 in your experience levelling system doesnt give any bonuses. How about, at level 5, people gain the ability to specialise (Gain these classes).
    
    Harold has 8 posts in Characters, and 7 posts in Lifeforms. He has recently gained level 5, and so his specialty is therefore, Beastmaster.
    Since Harold is a beastmaster, When he votes a + or - in the Characters, or Lifeforms categories, His votes give or take away an extra 1 experience point.
    
    Now for a different view:
    If harold has 60% in Items, so he has posted 10 times in items, and only a few in other categories, he specialises as a Gadgeteer. This means it is assumed he knows a bit about items. Any votes he makes in items, gives or takes 2 extra experience points, and posts in other categories give only the normal point.
    
    There is a specialty class reserved for people who have posted fairly evenly, and who have posted at least 10 times in at least 3 categories.
    Say MoonPenguin has 16 votes in characters, 15 votes in plots, and 20 votes in items. He gets the specialty class known as 'Dungeon Master'. You are required to be at least level 8 to be a dungeon master though. Every vote Moonpenguin gives to any category, has an 85% chance to give 2 experience points, and a 15% chance to give 5 experience points as a luck skill/power of the Dungeon Master.
    
    
    Anyway, Just made all this up as I went along, so its probably got lots of unintelligable things in it. Either way, I think it would be interesting and fun to specialise. It would also encourage people to post to gain their certain titles, and everyone would love to level up to get the Dungeon Master specialty.

18. Voting/Experience System

    #18

    What about Articles, Ideas, Settings/ World, Places, and such? There are other areas of entry in the V2.0 world. Conceptually a good idea, but it could get to be a messy little matrix. I am not yet convinced it is a good idea, but I am not against it either.
    
    Of course, do you want to be labeled by what you do, which is only decodable by those who have plummed the depths of the site (i.e. been here a while and actually looked through the FAQ)? I could see threads, upon threads, being summed up as "WTF? Why am I a XXXX?" "I was this, why did I change?" "Why is he this and I am that and we have done the same thing (or so they think).
    
    Just my thoughts upon your thoughts...

19. Voting/Experience System

    #19

    I think I said it before, interest in the site in whatever form that gets people coming back, including discussing and arguing the merits of the ranking system, exp system etc, is not necessarily a bad thing. If they have the questions they explore, as they explore they may or may not find what they are looking for, but either way the entire concept intriqued them enough to 'care' and look and post questions about it.
    
    Once it is explained then perhaps they will be converted and turn into a valuable member that will, in turn, help others understand the system.
    
    I will be putting a lot of time into developing a comprehensive system (I have to if I am going to code it) but as it stands I will probably try and run with this idea. I like it.

20. Voting/Experience System

    #20

    Tried to trim it down so it still made sense. Didn't want my entire post requoted.
    
    

    Hello Strolen,
    Hmmm, well it is not my habit to burn down everything on first sight, but having read all your ideas, I feel compeled to NOT shoot them of straight away. Actualy most of it seems fairly to very cool and logical keeping in mind the options strolen.com offers right now and the kind of people that visit the site.
    
    I do have some comments though, since some of the options seem not very practical or otherwise need polishing in my opinion. I know that many of the comments might sound a bit like "bad-idea", that is why I will try to come up with a alternative, if I have one.

    
    
    You gain extra experience points for using all your available votes during a 24hr period.
    You gain extra experience points for logging in each 24hr period.
    
    

    
    Just my $0.02, 24 hrs is rather a short time span. In my experience there is quite a few people who do not visit the site everyday. Perhaps it would be a wiser choice to change these two into 7 day periods..... On the other hand that means that people would not feel very much of the fact that they have but a limited number of votes.

    
    
    

    
    I think XP should be lost already when a submission is moved to the editing room.

    
    
    You also automatically gain an XP point for any comment and multiple XP
    points for a submission. Higher votes on submissions can give more XP. So
    submitting an excellent submission gets you instant XP plus a greater
    chance of earning more XP through votes. Poor submissions still let you
    gain an XP but the bad votes will in turn take it away. You will also lose
    XP if you post is deleted or removed for editing.
    
    

    One big problem I see is this: when a post is removed, you lose the XP, but what about the xp you have gained by chance, because you had 10 positive votes. Perhaps you have gained 10 xp with the positive votes, but perhaps you have gained 0 xp. I would think that handeling all the calculations would be much simpler if you did not have a chance factor in the whole picture. Of course submissions are more important as comments are. votes on submissions are about as important as comments I would say, but votes for comments are considerably less important. So perhaps a submission would yield 100 xp, a comment or a vote would yield 10 xp and a vote for a comment would yield 2 xp.
    
    A comment added to your submission would not give you xp, but a positive vote would give you 5 xp and a negative vote would cost 5 xp. If your comment be voted positive, you would gain 1 xp and if your comment recieves a negative vote, you would lose 1 xp.
    
    Of course this implies that the levels you mention later, need to be reached at much higher xp counts.
    
    Oh, yes and it should be made impossible that people vote for their own submissions or comments.
    
    Last but not least, I think the number of xp you recieve for a post in the forums should be related to the length of the post and probably also to the place they post. (less xp in a general chat area and more in one of the "world building" fora.) xp for posts should be maximized though, because I feel it is rather odd that if someone writes a entire book in a post, rendering it nearly unreadable thru its length, recieves more xp as someone who just writes a solid message and knows when to stop.
    

    
    
    Once a user hits a level they will be given Hall of Honor points.
    Once a user gives a submission Hall of Honor points, it cannot give them again to that submission.
    
    

    What if the time a submission remains in the HoH is dependant on the number of Hoh points a user spends? (Day for point basis?) I also do not understand why I might not be able to renominate a submision for the HoH. Today I may have 2 HoH points and decide to spend them on a teriffic item and then when I gain another 5 HoH points, spend them again on this teriffic item, placing it in the HoH for another five days.

    
    
    
    Golden Submissions
    This is the page of chosen submissions that are in the top of their category and something to aspire to. Each Golden Submission must be unanimously voted on by a certain number of admins/power users.
    
    

    I do not think there should be a unanimous vote, but perhaps at least 25% of the people with appropriate rights should have voted and of the votes at least 75% should be: this is gold. After all, people tend to disagree. (Note that below I have added the gold submission vote as one of the rights that could be gained with enough experience).

    
    
    Level Advancement
    
    Level---Votes per Day Authorized, Hall of Honor Points, Minimum Submission
    number to make level, minimum EXP to make level
    1---0, 0, 0, 0
    2---5, 0, 5, 50
    3---10, 0, 10, 100
    4---20, 1, 20, 200
    5---30, 1, 30, 350
    6---45, 2, 45, 600
    
    

    I think going from level X to level X+1 should always be "harder" as going from level X-1 to level X, so if going from level 1 to level 2 takes 50 points, going from level 2 to level 3 should take more. Seeing that you can lose xp, you may actualy be reduced in level and I think that is somethingn that should happen.

    
    
    Quest
    
    Grant other users extra votes. (share their own perhaps)
    

    I can imagine that I can give some of my votes to other users to spend as they please. Same could go for Hall of Honour points. I think it should first be possible to give my XP to another user, then votes, then HoH points.

    
    
    Blessing Points. The giving of XP by upper levels for an extremely good comment or submission.
    Moderation power I. Send a message to the Mods to review a submission for movement to the editing room.
    Moderation power II. Vote and comment to influence submissions in the editing room.
    Moderation power III. Approve or disapprove the return to the main site of editing room submission.
    Moderation power IV. Remove a submission directly (or approve a consideration for removal) and send it to the editing room without sending a message to ask other Mods.
    Mentorship (Once a certain level is attained then you have the expertise to offer your assistance to newbies that are struggling. A list of those willing to help can be posted so they can easily find those that want to help. Will be by PM or a special forum.)
    
    

    My personal feeling towards moderating is that most "real" moderating is something that the siteowner (i.e. you) wants to be able to control. So first of, I would not really feel it to be a good idea to grant people moderation rights by virtue of their level. Moderation Power I: This power seems useless. I can always send a PM to you or captain Penguin to have a submission moved to the editing room, so a direct button, does not realy add anything. You would like me to bring arguments along anyway.
    
    Moderation Power II: Having debated this for a long time.... Yes, I can imagine that senior memebers might have a say in what should be removed or brought back to the main site.
    
    Moderation Power IV: As mentioned, I think you should decide who can do
    this and not experience on the site.
    
    I also think Mentorship is more something that you might feel compelled to do, it is not something that comes to you, because you have been on the site so long. Some people simply feel like helping out, others.... don't.
    
    Other power gained with exp: Gold submission voting right?
    
    Well, there is some other thoughts floating thru my head right now, but I
    do not know how to put them into bits and bytes right now, so I will just leave it at this.
    I can imagine you want to bounce some of the ideas back and forth a bit. Please feel free to do so.
    
    Yours,
    
    Ylorea

21. Voting/Experience System

    #21

    User Registration Time Limit
    
    Automatically purge users that sign up and then don't log in again or post within one(?) month. Keeps the user database clean with only active members.
    
    Once they have any post they are safe forever.

22. Voting/Experience System

    #22

    What about a 6 month, or 1 year limit for people who have posted? Because at times you get spammers and people who just log in and say one thing, then never return. An example is those advertising spammer people that came in posting about some sports site.
    
    And if you have been deleted, you can always sign up again. You won't lose much except the post count that you had, and you can rebuild on that. If someone hasnt posted for a year, I think it can be FAIRLY safely assumed they wont be coming back for some time.

23. PURGE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #23

    I like the purge we did last purge. Most people will sign up for anything not realizing what the site really is or that they think it is something else.
    
    Auto purging after one month is good. Auto purging those who have not logged on in a while (six months is fair) is good. If they are contributing or at least actively looked, they are a waste of memory and deserve to be purged.
    
    Lots of sites claim thousands of members. Thousands of people have come to the site, registered and left. Only a tiny fraction is still active on the site, and a tiny fraction of those actually post (and are ususally site admins as well).

24. Voting/Experience System

    #24

    If you delete the user you have to delete the posts....or I suppose revert them to "anonymous" but I don't like that idea. Hence, if they post and then you delete the user then you orphan their posts and create bad things in the database.
    
    I don't like the idea of posts reverting to anonymous either.

25. Voting/Experience System

    #25

    Darn. So if they post at all, they are safe from purging. How annoying. However, for the security of having a nice stable database, I am willing to be annoyed by fly by night posters.
    
    Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza! Cold pizza!
    
    That is how annoyed I am.

26. Voting/Experience System

    #26

    It could also depend on their post. If it is something we won't miss then who is to say they, or their post, will be missed.
    
    Small potatoes in the scheme of things.

27. Voting/Experience System

    #27

    Warning System
    
    Instead of just a straight ban, I saw a warning system on a site and I cannot remember where it was at the moment.
    
    Basically a user has 5 (10? whatever points to play with.
    
    For swearing, a certain level can penalize them for swearing, maybe 1 point.
    
    Penalized 2 points for a rude flame.
    
    Penalize 3 points for a post that is obviously done in poor taste.
    
    A totaly of 5 points and they lose all posting privilidges but can still log into the site.
    
    Not sure what to do from there. They still have access to their private page so maybe they must give a public apology or something? I don't know.
    
    The point system was my, well, point and the ability for a certain level to be able to give out points.
    
    Once they lose posting priviliges maybe it will be up to an admin whether or not they are banned from the site in totality.

28. V2: Votes and visibility

    #28

    If this is already a feature of V2's intricate voting system, please excuse me. The documentation for V2 is immense and I am a mere mortal =)
    
    *ahem*
    
    Well, I know this has been discussed before, but it has been bugging me for a long time:
    Sometimes a post looks good, get good reviews and still the rating is fairly low. Other times the situation is reversed, with bad posts getting unusally high ranking, even though the reviews devastate the post.
    
    So I thought that, as an admin, we should be able to see the votes and thus monitor obvious self-voters (creating secondary nick and voting for oneself), hate voters and pal voters. I know it might be irrelevant, but still... Those votes mean a lot to people who willingly expose their fiction to our judgment! It has, in some cases, proven to be more than Strolenites and passers by can handle.
    
    I say: Grant the admins the power to view who cast which vote, but not the right to delete votes. By being able to scrutinize the voting, potential abuse can be removed! And by denying admins the right to delete votes we remove the "An annoyed Admin deleted your vote"-Syndrome.
    
    Just me splitting hairs again ;)

29. Voting/Experience System

    #29

    As long as there are hairs to split....
    
    Can't vote on yourself. Key feature.
    
    Every vote (all of them from comment votes to HoH votes), comment, submission, suggestion and favorite is tracked with a timestamp, IP, and user_id. Nothing privacy wise, just actions taking on the Citadel. Just like the forum, really.
    
    So, yes, there will be a way for admins to take a quick check. Just haven't decided how to implement it yet.

30. Voting/Experience System

    #30

    Oh, I was going to have the blessing points as well. Haven't implemented them yet but not a huge deal to once we get going.
    
    The idea for those was you get a blessing or two a day at the higher levels. With those you can basically double-vote on something you think that is very worthy. That could be a neglected post or just a great post.
    
    That could also be used to offset some of the more debateable voting that may happen.

31. Voting/Experience System

    #31

    Warning System
    
    ...
    
    Not sure what to do from there. They still have access to their private page so maybe they must give a public apology or something? I don't know.

    
    
    Just one grain on the Pyramid of V2:
    - for those really badly behaving (as well as special purposes), have one forum anyone can post to - even anonyms. (Also for the cases when someone cannot login and can't report it otherwise.) I think we can handle one forum open to anyone, spammers nothwithstanding.

Administrators · All categories · Guildhall